Todd Bentley...

[Colonel]

I talked at length with a former spiritualist healer who said they never completely healed anyone. The devil just moved the affliction to another part of the body in another form of illness. When two or more believers come together and agree for something there will be healing there regardless of the jackass up front.

Alternatively the person gets a demon in return for the healing. Or a new belief system that he's enslaved by. The devil isn't intent on doing people unconditional favors. There are many counterfeits to the things of God and when sin and/or false doctrine abounds it may not be so easy to tell true from false, the devil is happy to participate when something else is going on than the gospel being promoted with truth and integrity.

[Colonel]

Luke 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

Verses 17-20 are for context. Notice verse 19 which indicates that a servant of the Lord may deal with the powers of the enemy without fear of being bitten or stung in the process.

Let's say some well known minister is either living secretly in severe sin and/or is embracing false doctrine secretly. He may have had encounters with all kinds of demons and received from them, whether it's sexual, heretical or other types of demons. He might even imagine that the demons he has come into fellowship with (one of the letters to the Corinthians warns against that) is the Holy Spirit or a new impartation of the Holy Spirit. He may start moving in demonic power thinking that it's the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Then he preaches in a large meeting in front of a crowd that's full of expectation based on meetings held previously. Does verse 19 automatically apply to everyone ? No, it applies to people who live right and walk in the Spirit and who receive from the Holy Spirit according to the truth. In chapter 10 Jesus is talking to people whom he is sending out to preach the gospel, not to whoever. A minister operating in a counterfeit anointing might lay hands on people who will simply receive anything that the minister might impart to them because they rely on him instead of on the Holy Spirit.

I remember going past a bunch of massage healers in a mall several years ago and they were giving people short healing massages for free, for marketing purposes. The Holy Spirit told me very clearly not to let them do that to me because they were operating in demonic power and the demons would be interested in imparting something to me. That's one reason why we may rest assured that the devil won't hurt us, that the Holy Spirit might tell us when to avoid certain people or situations. People who are taken by the power and glory of the allegedly sound super minister might not bother to listen to the Holy Spirit if he tells them to avoid being layed hands on or to resist an impartation that the minister for some reason suddenly wants them to have.

[LionHeart]

Alternatively the person gets a demon in return for the healing. Or a new belief system that he's enslaved by. The devil isn't intent on doing people unconditional favors. There are many counterfeits to the things of God and when sin and/or false doctrine abounds it may not be so easy to tell true from false, the devil is happy to participate when something else is going on than the gospel being promoted with truth and integrity.

Satan cannot remove something he put there. It is not true biblical healing. Bentley had at some point a genuine healing ministry Anointing from God. If that lifts off of you you are powerless. You might fake some stuff but to anyone with spiritual eyes they know when it's gone it's gone. I saw this happen to a ministry gift still in the limelight today. He had homosexual relationships with men. The Anointing which was once so powerful diminished greatly and he still ministers with a Gift but no Anointing.

[Colonel]

Satan cannot remove something he put there. It is not true biblical healing. Bentley had at some point a genuine healing ministry Anointing from God. If that lifts off of you you are powerless. You might fake some stuff but to anyone with spiritual eyes they know when it's gone it's gone. I saw this happen to a ministry gift still in the limelight today. He had homosexual relationships with men. The Anointing which was once so powerful diminished greatly and he still ministers with a Gift but no Anointing.

Where does it say that Satan cannot produce a genuine healing when he also manages to enslave people in the process ? The scripture on the Antichrist places no limitations on his miracles, to the contrary it uses the word "all" as in all manners of, twice.
Where does scripture put up "genuine healings" as a measuring stick for legitimate ministry rather than integrity in walk and doctrine ?

[LionHeart]

Where does it say that Satan cannot produce a genuine healing when he also manages to enslave people in the process ? The scripture on the Antichrist places no limitations on his miracles, to the contrary it uses the word "all" as in all manners of, twice.
Where does scripture put up "genuine healings" as a measuring stick for legitimate ministry rather than integrity in walk and doctrine ?

Healing is God's nature and satan does not want to imitate that at all. That's why someone who imparts a lying spirit of healing probably gives more trouble then the actual sickness. It is not satans nature to relieve any pain unless he can get a stronger hold on a person through impartation of another kind of spirit.Actually I cannot think of one instance where satan did actually heal someone in the Bible?

[Colonel]

Healing is God's nature and satan does not want to imitate that at all. That's why someone who imparts a lying spirit of healing probably gives more trouble then the actual sickness. It is not satans nature to relieve any pain unless he can get a stronger hold on a person through impartation of another kind of spirit.

Of course he doesn't want to do people unconditional favors like to simply heal them then leave them to do whatever it was that they did before. The simplest way is to demonize them or lure them into false doctrine or religions in the process. That doesn't mean that he cannot operate in more complicated ways. If he perceives that Charismatics are likely to look the other way with ministers that become Jezebelic or heretical as long as what they preach has the gospel as its core and they still produce miracles then he's likely to attempt to undermine ministers by having them fall then tricking them into receiving a demonic anointing. Maybe that is basically what happened to Dowie and Branham and maybe things would have gotten far worse if God hadn't removed them, seeing how Christians would have accepted them as "still used by God" on account of continuing miracles and in spite of their obvious shortcomings in most other areas.

Thinking about the antichrist, that seems to be what the scripture from 2 Thes says will happen.

2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

What did they do ? They believed the miracles rather than look for truth (at all in this case).

[Colonel]

Here's a scenario that I think is likely to happen. Someone has a wonderful miracle ministry then starts living in severe sin or embrace false doctrine. His embracing false doctrine may precede his actually preaching it by a rather long time but he is already being corrupted in his heart and mind. Then he perceives that his gifts aren't operating like they used to (the crowds may or may not at all perceive the same) and he starts seeking God for his original power. God tells him to repent but the minister doesn't want to and he justifies his actions or his false doctrine. God tells him that he has given him time to repent but now he will remove his anointing. The minister doesn't listen. Then a demon shows up and tells him that he is from God. Or that he is in fact the Holy Spirit and the minister's other experiences of being rebuked by the Holy Spirit were in fact false. After this new "impartation" the minister is suddenly back to where his gifts appear to operate like they did before. His sins may be exposed somewhere along the way but people will listen to the miracles rather than to a walk of integrity. Likewise he may start to slowly introduce his false doctrine that he embraced already long ago, and people will again listen to the miracles rather than to truth. Now Satan has managed to undermine his ministry and although people are healed and some become followers, the actual fruit is everything else than what the miracles suggest.

[LionHeart]

But there has never been such a case. Satan does not actually heal anyone. He either moves the sickness around in the body or hypnotizes them into thinking they were healed when actually they where not. His nature is to steal, kill, and destroy. It would violate his mission to really give someone long term relief from any sickness. I have been in meetings where the evangelist was worse than Todd Bentley and people still got healed because they were genuine believers who trust in the Word. There was no false anointing there at all. They received their healing because the Word was preached and they acted on the Word and the corporate faith of other genuine believers in the building helped them. Bentley's meetings were the same deal. As people came believing in the God of the Bible they generated corporate faith where anything can happen in spite of the wrecked evangelist.In an atmosphere of corporate faith there is a spiritual momentum that carries the whole meeting into the heavenlies. There is not a single instance of satan healing anyone in the Bible.

[Colonel]

But there has never been such a case. Satan does not actually heal anyone. He either moves the sickness around in the body or hypnotizes them into thinking they were healed when actually they where not.

Prove that that is always what happens so that we can use "genuine healings" as the sole measuring stick for the validity of a ministry.

[John]

But there has never been such a case. Satan does not actually heal anyone. He either moves the sickness around in the body or hypnotizes them into thinking they were healed when actually they where not. His nature is to steal, kill, and destroy. It would violate his mission to really give someone long term relief from any sickness. I have been in meetings where the evangelist was worse than Todd Bentley and people still got healed because they were genuine believers who trust in the Word. There was no false anointing there at all. They received their healing because the Word was preached and they acted on the Word and the corporate faith of other genuine believers in the building helped them. Bentley's meetings were the same deal. As people came believing in the God of the Bible they generated corporate faith where anything can happen in spite of the wrecked evangelist.In an atmosphere of corporate faith there is a spiritual momentum that carries the whole meeting into the heavenlies. There is not a single instance of satan healing anyone in the Bible.

Luke 11:11-13 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?