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Thread: Another Jesus - Jeremiah Johnson

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    That is different to born again believers turning the real Jesus into the 'Jesus' they want to accept which is a form of idolatry

    Deception has been happening for the last 2000 years but imo it has accelerated rapidly the last decades. Modern communication as well as the spread of post modernism has seen huge increases
    I think we all do that to some small degree ("what we want to accept" may differ wildly though). Which doesn't mean that we have received a false Jesus spirit into our hearts to replace the Holy Spirit. Nor does it mean that we are letting ourselves be influenced by a specific false Jesus spirit. Heresy hunters will of course tell every Charismatic that we all have a false Jesus and are on our way to hell, a small departure from "correct doctrine" is enough for them to declare that.

    The clearest "false Jesus" of all was the one presented to the masses by the medieval Catholic church. They didn't let them read or listen to the Bible instead they taught them from a catechism that had them revere and pray to Mary and the saints and do good works in their own power and where the real Jesus was almost gone. When they told them something in a language that they were able to understand that is. Most people didn't understand the Latin used in the actual services. Still some people managed to find saving faith and were born again. The RCC of today is very different to the one of a thousand years ago.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    .

    How do I delete the above dot??
    .

  3. #23
    The prophets Gift in the New Testament is a Gift of encouragement first and foremost.(Acts15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brothers with many words, and confirmed them.") If someone claims to be a prophet and everything they produce is about judgement and criticism of the church I have a bad feeling about that. I have been following JJ's ministry for a couple of years now and I am having some real underlying bad feelings that are not good at all . Maybe I have been burned too many times by jumping on the revival bandwagon of someone who got off ?The false doctrines in the church should be corrected by strong Pastoral teachers and not the prophets ministry. The prophet may see and warn of something wrong, but I don't see any New Testament precedent for them to be the one to correct the errors. I personally have been in some strong prophetic confrontations over the years and I am not against that at all. But that is more of a behind the scenes ministry that most do not see or hear because it's private.Also, when I was in Word of Faith circles it was almost heresy to question Kenneth Hagin's visions. I don't hesitate to examine every vision of anyone for myself to see if it is really God sent or someone trying to correct the body of Christ with their visions.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    The prophets Gift in the New Testament is a Gift of encouragement first and foremost.(Acts15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brothers with many words, and confirmed them.") If someone claims to be a prophet and everything they produce is about judgement and criticism of the church I have a bad feeling about that. I have been following JJ's ministry for a couple of years now and I am having some real underlying bad feelings that are not good at all . Maybe I have been burned too many times by jumping on the revival bandwagon of someone who got off ?The false doctrines in the church should be corrected by strong Pastoral teachers and not the prophets ministry. The prophet may see and warn of something wrong, but I don't see any New Testament precedent for them to be the one to correct the errors. I personally have been in some strong prophetic confrontations over the years and I am not against that at all. But that is more of a behind the scenes ministry that most do not see or hear because it's private.Also, when I was in Word of Faith circles it was almost heresy to question Kenneth Hagin's visions. I don't hesitate to examine every vision of anyone for myself to see if it is really God sent or someone trying to correct the body of Christ with their visions.
    Demons are quite capable of telling people the truth. They told people that Jesus was the son of God and their motivation was to stir up contention. One told people that Paul was a servant of God who was telling them how to get saved, again to stir up contention or at least to become part of the entourage. We shouldn't be as arrogant as to assume that any and every vision published by a well known minister amounts to truth just because we either like the minister or like the content of that particular vision or both. Maybe the devil told Johnson more things, things that he didn't publish. Maybe he will show up later and tell him more things, this time that aren't true. Maybe we will hear about it, maybe not. People will read that account and think that interrogating the devil sounds cool and then go ahead and do the same themselves. Even if it is conceivable that someone would be able to do that "under the anointing", that doesn't mean that everyone is going to do that, especially considering that Johnson didn't offer any explanation for how he managed to interrogate a devil successfully. That is some very shoddy business indeed.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    If it was in fact a demon then the demon wouldn't tell him truths, ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Demons are quite capable of telling people the truth.

    You contradict yourself in your 2 above quotes - you first say demons can't tell truths and then when shown in scripture they spoke the truth you now say they can tell the truth

  6. #26
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionHeart View Post
    The prophets Gift in the New Testament is a Gift of encouragement first and foremost.(Acts15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brothers with many words, and confirmed them.") If someone claims to be a prophet and everything they produce is about judgement and criticism of the church I have a bad feeling about that. I have been following JJ's ministry for a couple of years now and I am having some real underlying bad feelings that are not good at all . Maybe I have been burned too many times by jumping on the revival bandwagon of someone who got off ?The false doctrines in the church should be corrected by strong Pastoral teachers and not the prophets ministry. The prophet may see and warn of something wrong, but I don't see any New Testament precedent for them to be the one to correct the errors. I personally have been in some strong prophetic confrontations over the years and I am not against that at all. But that is more of a behind the scenes ministry that most do not see or hear because it's private.Also, when I was in Word of Faith circles it was almost heresy to question Kenneth Hagin's visions. I don't hesitate to examine every vision of anyone for myself to see if it is really God sent or someone trying to correct the body of Christ with their visions.

    I can't really comment about JJ's ministry because I don't follow him or know much about him. I know there has been 1 or 2 prophecies of his that has been posted on this forum.
    Those like yourself who have followed him over the years are more able to comment accurately and judge according to scripture his prophecies.

    About this specific word by JJ - in the past some godly men have had similar encounters - it is very rare and God has allowed it but God doesn't send the demon.

    Believers should never try to communicate with demons in the flesh. Also prophetic people can be deceived in their mind/imagination and believe they are having these spiritual experiences - the scripture warns of this
    JJ is right that there are 'false Jesus' so that part of his dream is accurate but it is possible he had a natural dream with no divine revelation


    Overall the whole prophetic movement has taken a dive....there are many calling themselves prophets and coming up with ridiculous prophecies and then bringing in weird teaching.
    I share your concern why prophetic people don't seem to be correcting these errors and as you say it needs strong input by gifted teachers

    The church still needs the prophetic but it must be lead by mature people with solid scriptural basis

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You contradict yourself in your 2 above quotes - you first say demons can't tell truths and then when shown in scripture they spoke the truth you now say they can tell the truth
    Yeah, I was gonna point that out myself. :)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    You contradict yourself in your 2 above quotes - you first say demons can't tell truths and then when shown in scripture they spoke the truth you now say they can tell the truth
    I said wouldn't and I added that they would try to trick him. Their aim would be something more than to simply tell the truth, it would be to promote some kind of lie implicitly. As the following verse suggests :

    John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I can't really comment about JJ's ministry because I don't follow him or know much about him. I know there has been 1 or 2 prophecies of his that has been posted on this forum.
    Those like yourself who have followed him over the years are more able to comment accurately and judge according to scripture his prophecies.

    About this specific word by JJ - in the past some godly men have had similar encounters - it is very rare and God has allowed it but God doesn't send the demon.

    Believers should never try to communicate with demons in the flesh. Also prophetic people can be deceived in their mind/imagination and believe they are having these spiritual experiences - the scripture warns of this
    JJ is right that there are 'false Jesus' so that part of his dream is accurate but it is possible he had a natural dream with no divine revelation


    Overall the whole prophetic movement has taken a dive....there are many calling themselves prophets and coming up with ridiculous prophecies and then bringing in weird teaching.
    I share your concern why prophetic people don't seem to be correcting these errors and as you say it needs strong input by gifted teachers

    The church still needs the prophetic but it must be lead by mature people with solid scriptural basis
    Prophets speaking their own thoughts has always been common. Just because the prophecy isn't ridiculous and doesn't involve ridiculous teaching doesn't mean that it's from God. In this case the demon doesn't seem to give exactly as much information as he has to (because he allegedly is under authority) rather he seems conversational and descriptive as if he's happy to participate. Which leads me to think that the dream is nothing more than a reflection of Johnson's waking thoughts - which are less ridiculous than those of many other prophets and probably don't involve ridiculous teaching to begin with.

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