Happiest Nation in the World: Finland !!

[krystian]

High taxes leads to a little rebellion now and then. This we know.

Yep...which is how we became our own country, a little incident over the taxes on tea was one of the contributing factors.

Tom and Colonel, maybe the Finns and some other countries really are happy with high taxes and nanny governments but Americans for the most part like our independence. And its not because we're cheap either, we are the biggest givers in the world even on personal levels but we like to decide for ourselves who gets our money.

America, New Zealand and Canada top list of world's most generous nations

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a6849221.html

[Colonel]

Meaning who is 'everyone' as in 'everyone agrees...' You and the mouse in your pocket? I'm sure 'everyone' doesn't agree with your statement. I know a lot of people that think of taxes as 'legalized stealing'.

No police, military, courts of law etc ? I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who's an absolutist on zero taxation.

[Colonel]

Yep...which is how we became our own country, a little incident over the taxes on tea was one of the contributing factors.

Tom and Colonel, maybe the Finns and some other countries really are happy with high taxes and nanny governments but Americans for the most part like our independence.

Which is a cultural mindset. It may even be changing, especially among the younger population.

When I write something like the above, a bunch of crazy posters or lurkers will assume that I'm praising and promoting what I just wrote since it's in opposition to their personal opinion. I'm not, it's just an observation.

Other cultures may entertain different mindsets. The Finns obviously do. The majority of Norwegians think that the American mindset is way over the top.

When I say something about what Norwegians think then even more posters and lurkers will assume that I'm praising and promoting what I just said because they assume that I will naturally be in line with whatever "the majority of Norwegians" think. Which is completely untrue. I may be and I may very well not be.

Another crazy thing, and now I am stating my personal opinion, is when Americans think that it cannot be that other cultures think differently than they do. For instance, the Finns must be ignorant of their high taxation levels or else they would be unhappy. Or they are all Socialist activists because that is what most Americans who would be happy about the same taxation levels typically are. Or they assume that their American mindsets are "natural" and the mindsets of other cultures are "unnatural" when they differ.

Sometimes the exact opposite is the truth, even the Biblical truth. Here's one for the zero taxation absolutist (if there really are "lots" of those over there) :

Romans 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

[Colonel]

Finland's population is 5.5 million. It's far easier to work out a economic system compared to any nation over 100 million

An influx of 20 million will stir things up

A large nation will be more subdivided than for instance Finland is, and with more levels of government. They will naturally get less back when they pay taxes because there is more government and it's more complicated to run. A higher level of taxation will be more difficult to swallow. More internal diversity and resulting tensions probably affects happiness levels more though. Finland is small in every way, doesn't have a large percentage of immigrants and isn't particularly divided internally.

[njtom]

Yep...which is how we became our own country, a little incident over the taxes on tea was one of the contributing factors.

Tom and Colonel, maybe the Finns and some other countries really are happy with high taxes and nanny governments but Americans for the most part like our independence. And its not because we're cheap either, we are the biggest givers in the world even on personal levels but we like to decide for ourselves who gets our money.

America, New Zealand and Canada top list of world's most generous nations

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a6849221.html

Hi Krystian. The situation with the British was, I believe, not so much about the level of taxes but about being subjected to taxes without having any say over what the levels should be and what they should be used for. We, fortunately, have a (somewhat) democratic form of government, so we do (somewhat) have a say over tax levels and uses.

As for independence (from government), I don't really believe that most Americans want it. Farmers want farm subsidies, corporations want patent protections, parents want public schools, retirees want Social Security and Medicare, and everyone wants police and fire departments.

[njtom]

A large nation will be more subdivided than for instance Finland is, and with more levels of government. They will naturally get less back when they pay taxes because there is more government and it's more complicated to run. A higher level of taxation will be more difficult to swallow. More internal diversity and resulting tensions probably affects happiness levels more though. Finland is small in every way, doesn't have a large percentage of immigrants and isn't particularly divided internally.

Fair points, Colonel, but I would point out that some of the nations in the top ten list of "happiest nations" list have a large immigrant population. Some data points:
Finland: 7.1 percent born abroad
Sweden: 14.3 percent born abroad
Canada: 20.6 percent born abroad

[FireBrand]

Fair points, Colonel, but I would point out that some of the nations in the top ten list of "happiest nations" list have a large immigrant population. Some data points:
Finland: 7.1 percent born abroad
Sweden: 14.3 percent born abroad
Canada: 20.6 percent born abroad

Given those kinds of numbers we Americans should be just giddy-up elated.

[Colonel]

Fair points, Colonel, but I would point out that some of the nations in the top ten list of "happiest nations" list have a large immigrant population. Some data points:
Finland: 7.1 percent born abroad
Sweden: 14.3 percent born abroad
Canada: 20.6 percent born abroad

Sweden has always amazed me. They have historically been more socialistic than the other Nordic countries, they have (had far) more immigrants including Muslims, they don't have the oil resource that Norway has and they are still doing very well.

Canada is large but has a very low population density, that helps. I'll assume that Canada's taxation level is higher than the US' which means that it's interesting that they are still among the most generous givers.

[Colonel]

Given those kinds of numbers we Americans should be just giddy-up elated.

The US has far more illegal immigrants per population and greater problems with drugs. But the thing that really amazes me about the US is the enormous prison population and how it has just grown and grown since the 1980s.

[Colonel]

I know a lot of people that think of taxes as 'legalized stealing'.

Zero taxation absolutists are mentioned here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft

The position that taxation is immoral because it is a form of theft is a viewpoint found in a number of radical political philosophies, such as libertarianism, and marks a radical departure from conservatism and classical liberalism. Voluntaryists, anarcho-capitalists, as well as Objectivists and most minarchists and libertarians see taxation as a clear violation of the non-aggression principle.

I find the discussion that follows very interesting so I'll quote that too :

Under this view, government transgresses property rights by enforcing compulsory tax collection, regardless of what the amount may be.[3][4] Some defenders of taxation argue, on the other hand, that the notion of legal private property rights only exists within the legal framework of the state.[5] Without a source of income, the state would be unable to enforce property law, and legal concepts such as theft and property rights, would essentially be rendered meaningless. Therefore it can be argued that the "taxation is theft" view is self-defeating unless the state can generate income through other means than taxation, such as state-owned business enterprises, or if the state is wholly paid for and operated by volunteers

What kind of groups are associated with the definition ?

Anarcho-capitalists

Libertarians

There are left-wing and right-wing libertarians. Under right-wing libertarians the Anarcho-capitalists show up again, along with an other group that is very similar :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert...libertarianism

How many genuine Anarcho-capitalists do you know ?