Just an opinion.This is good food for discussion. In their opening statement they say
What they are doing is tying the Wrath of God with the Tribulation. This sets them up for the "We are not appointed to wrath" argument that they use to prove their THEORY. However, you cannot find a single scripture which actually ties the two together.
They have taken 19:11-21 out of context. The verses before that say that there is a multitude in heaven and the Marriage of the Lamb, which is the resurrection.
Verse 5 says the Lord will come with ALL HIS SAINTS. We cannot be with him if we haven't been resurrected.
This would mean that there is a 3rd coming. The scriptures support no such theory.
Again, they are trying to say that there is a 3rd coming of the LORD. No scripture supports a 3rd coming.
"Seems to be" and "We believe" are not scripture.
2 thoughts on this:
1. Where does it say that these 24 Elders are the saints of God?
2. It could be the Prophets and Apostles, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
(These are just my immediate thoughts)
How many saints have gone home to the Lord since Jesus Ascended into heaven?
Nope. Revelation 3:10 says that the church in Philadelphia would be kept from the hour of trial which is coming. It doesn't say "Us" as in the church today. That goes with the "Each church in Asia Minor is a picture of a different church age or dispensation" theory.
That goes against scripture:
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
1 Thess 4:13-17 do not say that the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. It says nothing about the wicked. It does however reinforce my earlier point about the armies coming with Him (verse 14).
He is returning FOR a wedding, not FROM a wedding. 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 says He is coming to be admired among "all those who believe". The wicked will certainly not be admiring Him. It is talking about the church.
He will receive us, on the way down. At least if you believe the writings of Paul.
There is not a scripture that I can think of that explicitly says we will not join the army of saints and angels who are with Him when He comes with His might angels in flaming fire taking vengeance (wrath) on those who don't know God.
What they believe is one theory of who it is that restrains. However, it says "He who now restrains".
I cannot think of any scripture that refers to the church as "He".
My theory is that Paul is referring to the Holy Spirit, who will restrain until the Father says to stop restraining. (again, just my immediate thoughts).
2 Thessalonians chapter 1 again says that there will be a separation when He comes. Those who don't know God will be destroyed in fire as everything melts with a fervent heat. Those who are believing and waiting will join Jesus and the army of saints He brings with Him in the air.
The millennium refers to Revelation 20 where it says that the saints will rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
I am not sure that John meant an actual 1000 years. One school of thought is John was saying they will reign with Christ for a long long time, and not an exact 1000 years.
There have been millions of saints with Jesus since His ascension. During the birth and spreading of Islam, millions were beheaded because they would not deny Jesus Christ as their Lord. Revelation 20 specifically says "Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
I don't understand all of it brother Nikos. I don't think anyone here would say they do. And it is not a doctrine to break fellowship over. It is very interesting to study and debate.
As I go through the other chapters in the book for our bible study, I plan on adding more thoughts as they hit me.
Most importantly, you must remember: When He comes, we go. When we go, I'll look you up in person and we'll share a cup of that new wine Jesus talked about.