Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 51

Thread: Hebrews 6:4-6

  1. #31
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    That's apostasy but it doesn't say anything about the possibility of returning to the faith and who could or could not. Only that they tend to get worse than they were originally.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Knowing the gospel doesn't necessarily mean that one knows God but some of them do have a revelation or conviction of him without obeying. They don't have to be former believers, they could as well be people that never took up the faith.
    I think you are misunderstanding because of the language barrier bro.

    1. Paul said that there is a group who do not know God.(Of course this group doesn't obey the gospel)
    2. Paul said that there is another group who do not obey the gospel. (I believe that the inference here is that they do know God, which would mean that they understood and responded to the gospel message, but then turned away from it).



  3. #33
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding because of the language barrier bro.

    1. Paul said that there is a group who do not know God.(Of course this group doesn't obey the gospel)
    2. Paul said that there is another group who do not obey the gospel. (I believe that the inference here is that they do know God, which would mean that they understood and responded to the gospel message, but then turned away from it).
    That's an inference that you cannot derive from the text, and that was my point. It might fit your general interpretations of the Bible but that is something else.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
    8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

    Verses 6-8 are pretty clear that these people, whatever it is that they have done, cannot repent again and they are eternally lost. Or am I underthinking this ?

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
    28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
    29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Same thing. "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins".

  5. #35
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Everett, Washington
    Posts
    1,629
    Thanked: 1786
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
    Only "after we have received the knowledge of the truth" is is such an action so serious. To sin willfully is deliberate sin. To continue in progressive delibrate sin will develope a "sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." Like those mentioned in Heb 6:4-8, such people experienced salvation. The phrase "knowledge of the truth" is scriptural in NT writings for having come to full Christian conversion (1 Tim 2:4, 4:3, Titus 1:1, 1 Jn 2:21). For such people there is no sacrifice for sin remaining. What remains is the judgment of God.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  6. #36
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Only "after we have received the knowledge of the truth" is is such an action so serious. To sin willfully is deliberate sin. To continue in progressive delibrate sin will develope a "sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." Like those mentioned in Heb 6:4-8, such people experienced salvation. The phrase "knowledge of the truth" is scriptural in NT writings for having come to full Christian conversion (1 Tim 2:4, 4:3, Titus 1:1, 1 Jn 2:21). For such people there is no sacrifice for sin remaining. What remains is the judgment of God.
    We all sin after having received the knowledge of the truth and there is forgiveness. Could this be entirely in context with chapter 6 (and the rest of the book), and the 'sin willfully' he is referring to is the specific sin of Hebrews 6 since he is specifically referring to Hebrew Christians going back to Judaism which denies the diety of Jesus? Especially with the "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"? Sounds like an extension of 6 to me.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (03-26-2019)

  8. #37
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Most Christians have sinned while being conscious that it was in fact a sin so unless we are all where there is no sacrifice for sins left then it has to refer to something more severe than that. It doesn't say that if we repent after doing that then there will suddenly be a sacrifice for our sins again.

  9. #38
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Most Christians have sinned while being conscious that it was in fact a sin so unless we are all where there is no sacrifice for sins left then it has to refer to something more severe than that. It doesn't say that if we repent after doing that then there will suddenly be a sacrifice for our sins again.
    Hence my point in the post above.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (03-26-2019), Quest (03-11-2019)

  11. #39
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Hence my point in the post above.
    So you agree that both passages are describing or referring to an irreversible condition then ? In that case it should take more than simply returning to Judaism again from Christianity.

  12. #40
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    There's a clue about the severity in Heb 10:29 :

    29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

    I can only think of three passages where sins committed directly against the Spirit are mentioned and they all involve the same level of severity. Here are the other two :

    Mat 12:31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

    Acts 5:3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
    ***
    5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last.

    Insulting or blaspheming the Spirit resulted in an irrevocably lost condition. Lying to the Spirit resulted in immediate death. It's clearly a different class of sin than any other sin. Perhaps it is what qualifies as "sinning wilfully" because it is being done in the face of the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit. Not just in that presence but in the Holy Spirit's face, so to speak.

    It seems clear to me that sinning directly against the Spirit is what produces the irreversible condition referred to in Heb 6 and 10. I believe that the author is describing a ritual for reentry to strict Judaism (to become one of the "Hebrews" again) that produced that condition in previously mature Christians but that would just be the setting and not the mechanism as such.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Ford Focus warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.