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Thread: Hebrews 6:4-6

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Have you ever wondered why Paul lists 2 different groups who will suffer the vengeance of the Lord when He comes through the clouds?
    First, there are "those who do not know God" and second, there are "those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ".

    To me, this means that there is a group who know God but no longer obey the gospel. They have walked away from the kingdom.
    Exactly....Where so many seem to wonder is what constitutes the 2nd group...the pastor who falls, the believer who gets ensnared again with alcohol or drugs or sexual perversion...the believer who stops attending church....I don't believe any of these do this absolutely...that the 2nd group are the same ones who are reprobate...who have known conviction and God but willfully and knowingly rejected Jesus as the WAY TRUTH and LIFE...they are those who may fit the sin fall I mentioned but have moved on to not only becoming confused and broken but take the final leap into total rejection of Jesus as their savior...I also believe one can do this while still professing faith...but have clearly rejected the scriptures as the inerrant word of God, our foundation of truth.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    One of my cousins was a believer then came to the point where he told his father that he would no longer "have anything to do with Jesus". Months later he repented and took up the faith again. That's temporary apostasy. He wasn't a mature believer. I don't think that what he did has anything to do with "recrucifying Christ and putting him to open shame" or "desecrating the blood of the covenant and the Spirit of grace". He spoke words against Jesus but Jesus said that people would be forgiven for that even though they wouldn't be forgiven for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.
    I agree...the passage of scripture speaking of a smoldering flax He will not quench is clear to me...GOD knows who has crossed that line of no return and unless He reveals that to us we cannot. That is why I strongly reject the idea that one can be born again multiple times....

    It is a specific LEVEL of apostasy that no longer believes Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father by any other way...

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It could simply mean that they have a general knowledge of the gospel and the first group has none.
    We know that those who do not know God are the unsaved. They are going to hell. The fact that he points out the second group, IMHO shows that there are those who Know God and also end up in judgement.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    We know that those who do not know God are the unsaved. They are going to hell. The fact that he points out the second group, IMHO shows that there are those who Know God and also end up in judgement.
    Knowing the gospel doesn't necessarily mean that one knows God but some of them do have a revelation or conviction of him without obeying. They don't have to be former believers, they could as well be people that never took up the faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It could simply mean that they have a general knowledge of the gospel and the first group has none.
    General knowledge has not TASTED...that whole context of Hebrews is clearly not written to or for unbelievers but believers who turn back to another belief system for their salvation rather than maturing in Christ.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    General knowledge has not TASTED...that whole context of Hebrews is clearly not written to or for unbelievers but believers who turn back to another belief system for their salvation rather than maturing in Christ.
    Check and you'll see that we are discussing a passage from a different letter.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Check and you'll see that we are discussing a passage from a different letter.
    Within the context of Hebrews 6...where did the OP change? I see Ezekiel's post as simply an extension of the initial OP...what am I missing?

  10. #28
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Within the context of Hebrews 6...where did the OP change? I see Ezekiel's post as simply an extension of the initial OP...what am I missing?
    We were specifically discussing the meaning of 1 Thes 1:6-10. I'm not quite sure where he intended to go with that but that is a different matter. I'm not a mind reader.

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    We were specifically discussing the meaning of 1 Thes 1:6-10. I'm not quite sure where he intended to go with that but that is a different matter. I'm not a mind reader.
    WITHIN the context of Hebrews 6 though, right? He was addressing, in context of discussion, that there will be those who are lost having never been saved and those who clearly were but cast off their faith...the second group is the one Paul is warning about in Hebrews 6. At least that is how I understood it...

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Check and you'll see that we are discussing a passage from a different letter.
    OK revisited...see where I missed a beat....Actually 2 Thessalonians 6 can be speaking of one group...

    2 Peter seems more clear... 2 Peter 2:20-22
    For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

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