Exactly....Where so many seem to wonder is what constitutes the 2nd group...the pastor who falls, the believer who gets ensnared again with alcohol or drugs or sexual perversion...the believer who stops attending church....I don't believe any of these do this absolutely...that the 2nd group are the same ones who are reprobate...who have known conviction and God but willfully and knowingly rejected Jesus as the WAY TRUTH and LIFE...they are those who may fit the sin fall I mentioned but have moved on to not only becoming confused and broken but take the final leap into total rejection of Jesus as their savior...I also believe one can do this while still professing faith...but have clearly rejected the scriptures as the inerrant word of God, our foundation of truth.