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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Jew and Greek
I bought "Surprised" when I was researching for my videos responding to the "Strange Fire" stuff. I heartily recommend it. But I need to buy "Miracles are for Today" too for future reference. Johnny Mac claims that Deere brought Cain into his office one day to show him a true prophet and Cain was drunk and incoherent. I'd like to get Deere's version of that story.
About 12yrs ago Paul went through some fleshly battles where he confessed later of some things he was involved in. I believe Rick Joyner had a hand in bringing Paul through it.
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Originally Posted by
Colonel
I bet SpongeBob Squarepants has never heard of Nikos.
What!!!
O well, never heard of Mr. Pants.
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Senior Member
Here it is. Seems a few years got away from me:
2/28/2005
After three ministers disfellowshiped Cain in October, he admitted to the charges and asked Christians to forgive him
Veteran charismatic minister Paul Cain issued a solemn apology on Jan. 31 in which he repented for immoral behavior and pledged to seek counseling for his alcoholism.
Celebrated in charismatic circles for his accuracy as a New Testament prophet, Cain was disciplined and disfellowshiped by three church leaders last fall after they determined he had engaged in a pattern of unbiblical behavior that included heavy drinking and homosexuality.
Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere released their charges Oct. 19 in a statement on the Internet. They also said Cain was unwilling to submit to a restoration process.
https://www.charismamag.com/site-arc...ral-lifestyle-
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Originally Posted by
fuego
I totally forgot I had those books. I still remember how the Power Evangelism opened up if I remember, him telling a story about being on a plane and looking at another passenger and seeing 'adultery' written across his forehead. If I remember the story accurately before the plane ride was over the man had confessed to his wife and they both got saved.
While I appreciate what I learned from Wimber, anyone who was feeding a lot of WoF teaching could tell that there was a different approach or viewpoint on some things, especially when you compare Wimber's "Power Healing" book to what we WoFers believe on the subject.
In the Wof we put more emphasis on faith for getting our needed miracles. We occasionally emphasize the gifts of the Spirit but we have truly pushed people towards the study of the Word and developing their faith. This is vitally important.
But the Vineyard emphasis on allowing God to work through them to evangelize via signs and wonders did bring some balance. After all, when you are evangelizing, that is not the time to give a sinner a long teaching on developing their faith. They need a miracle at that moment. In this sense the Vineyard emphasis on signs and wonders helped me in many ways.
However, some Vineyard people I met in the 90s were anti-wof and criticized our understanding on this. For them to neglect what I believed to be an important foundational truth ensured that I would never be a part of their movement though I would continue to learn from them.
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Originally Posted by
Jew and Greek
I bought "Surprised" when I was researching for my videos responding to the "Strange Fire" stuff. I heartily recommend it. But I need to buy "Miracles are for Today" too for future reference. Johnny Mac claims that Deere brought Cain into his office one day to show him a true prophet and Cain was drunk and incoherent. I'd like to get Deere's version of that story.
I would love to hear Deere's perspective on that myself.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
victoryword
However, some Vineyard people I met in the 90s were anti-wof and criticized our understanding on this. For them to neglect what I believed to be an important foundational truth ensured that I would never be a part of their movement though I would continue to learn from them.
There was a noteable amount of tension between Vineyard and WoF, more specifically on the Vineyard end. Randy Clark brought this out during the 2006 School of Healing And Impartation in Toronto. He wanted to bring the two streams together, Randy being of the Vineyard as was pastor Arnott.
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Originally Posted by
FireBrand
There was a noteable amount of tension between Vineyard and WoF, more specifically on the Vineyard end. Randy Clark brought this out during the 2006 School of Healing And Impartation in Toronto. He wanted to bring the two streams together, Randy being of the Vineyard as was pastor Arnott.
I remember hearing Clark's story. He was invited to Rhema to minister and at first refused to go. The Lord rebuked him for his denominational bias. It seemed he began changing.
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Originally Posted by
Colonel
I would prefer to hear Deere's side of this story. I take anything MacArthur says with a grain of salt.
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Originally Posted by
victoryword
I remember hearing Clark's story. He was invited to Rhema to minister and at first refused to go. The Lord rebuked him for his denominational bias. It seemed he began changing.
He actually was 'changed' at Rhema in a RHB service wasn't he? And then shortly after that went to Toronto and the Spirit moved there, a direct result of him being in that meeting with RHB. Just a part of the 'chain' of the Spirit moving during that time. An Anglican pastor from England goes to Toronto, gets changed, goes back to his church in England and the Spirit moves...Steve Hill goes to the church to visit him in England and is prayed for by the Anglican minister, then goes to Brownville and the Spirit moves there. And from Brownsville many smaller moves in churches resulted from that. RHB's ministry was basically the start of that whole move back then for several years.
Also Heidi Baker's life was changed in that Toronto meeting too.
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