Job 11:13-19 NLT

[Colonel]

James 5:11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

Job persevered through his ordeal, he didn't turn his back on God entirely. God was merciful which means that James acknowledges that Job sinned along the way and didn't say what was right about God.

Job 34:34 (Elihu) “Men of understanding say to me,
Wise men who listen to me:
35 ‘Job speaks without knowledge,
His words are without wisdom.’
36 Oh, that Job were tried to the utmost,
Because his answers are like those of wicked men!
37 For he adds rebellion to his sin;
He claps his hands among us,
And multiplies his words against God.”

[Jonathan david]

I think the Zophar's wrong presumptive part was to assume that Job's troubles were because of Job's sin, when God was referring to Job's righteousness:

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

So the statement below contradicts how God saw Job.

13 "If only you would prepare your heart
and lift up your hands to him in prayer!
14 Get rid of your sins,
and leave all iniquity behind you.

[Colonel]

I think the Zophar's wrong presumptive part was to assume that Job's troubles were because of Job's sin, when God was referring to Job's righteousness:

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

So the statement below contradicts how God saw Job.

13 “If only you would prepare your heart
and lift up your hands to him in prayer!
14 Get rid of your sins,
and leave all iniquity behind you.

God did not see Job like that per chapters 38-42 so something must have happened in between. Maybe it happened already in chapter 3 when Job cursed the day of his birth.

[Colonel]

Job 2:10 In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

The next things that happens is that his three friends arrive and they sit with him for seven days without speaking because they see his grief. Then Job does something else than what he has been doing so far :

Job 3:1 After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.

And he holds a speech that is similar. Which is the starting point of the rebuttals of his three friends. When they say that he should get rid of his sins they are saying the same that Elihu says in chapter 34 and at a point in the story where they are in fact right, he started sinning in chapter 3.

I've seen a lot of people quote Job chapters 1,2 and the end of 42 where Job is commended by God. They tend to ignore or are ignorant of the 39 chapters in between where Job is doing something else then he finally repents of that before he is commended again at the end.

Job is more like a struggling, somewhat sinful Christian who keeps with dialoguing with both men (his three friends), God's messenger (Elihu) and God himself (chapter 37 and on) and doesn't turn his back whether on God or on the process. He is in no way a super saint. That lasted for exactly two chapters.

[fuego]

James 5:11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. [B]You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord[/B]—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

This is what I was referring to when FB said he liked the end. This is mentioned in the NT and the trial itself is not emphasized per se, but perseverance and the end intended by the Lord. Again, when someone identifies with Job it's always the suffering, not the end.

[Cardinal TT]

If we judge Job like Elihu did then we do well because Elihu was never rebuked and Job had to repent before he was healed etc

I am not convinced everything Elihu said was right about Job. God did not rebuke him but neither did God commend him or give him any blessing when Job received double.

God basically ignored him which says to me God knew Elihu was young and did not hold him accountable due to his youth whereas God expected more from Jobs mature 3 friends.

Elihu was a young man who was trying to understand and spoke more wisely than Jobs friends but some things were accurate and some were his own opinions.

[Cardinal TT]

Job persevered through his ordeal, he didn't turn his back on God entirely.

Job did end up speaking out of terrible grief and said wrong things but he didn't turn his back on God not one bit.

No human apart from Jesus could ever suffer what Job went through and remain perfect in his words and attitude.

When God restored Job God said on 2 occasions as a rebuke to his friends in Job 42:7,8 - "You have not spoken right like my servant Job"

How could God say that when we know Job did speak out or order ....God sees and judges the heart and takes into account the amount of suffering and in Jobs case it was at the most extreme a human could endure.

That's what makes Job so powerful that a man could suffer so much and stay faithful to God
Job never lost his faith even though he wanted to die due to his pain

Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit have on far far far less pressures whined, complained, murmured, swore and some sadly end up forsaking and speaking evil about God

[Colonel]

I am not convinced everything Elihu said was right about Job. God did not rebuke him but neither did God commend him or give him any blessing when Job received double.

God basically ignored him which says to me God knew Elihu was young and did not hold him accountable due to his youth whereas God expected more from Jobs mature 3 friends.

Elihu was a young man who was trying to understand and spoke more wisely than Jobs friends but some things were accurate and some were his own opinions.

Elihu wasn't suffering and spoke for maybe fifteen minutes, why should God give him a special reward for that ? Which reminds me of the passage in the gospels where Jesus talks about moving mulberry trees by faith then starts talking about servants doing what is expected of them without expecting to receive any reward.

When God shows up in chapter 38 he continues Elihu's speech seemlessly. Being tag teamed should be commendation enough, there is no reason why God should point out that Elihu's speech was better than the others on top of that. In addition to that God demands repentance and sacrifice from Job's three friends and not from Elihu and there is no reason why he should ignore Elihu who was obviously older than bar mitzvah age and technically an adult in Jewish thinking. Claiming that Elihu spoke wrongly and words without wisdom about God and about Job but then he was ignored by a holy God who doesn't accept any sin or fault to any degree, is nothing more than speculation.

[Colonel]

Job did end up speaking out of terrible grief and said wrong things but he didn't turn his back on God not one bit.

No human apart from Jesus could ever suffer what Job went through and remain perfect in his words and attitude.

When God restored Job God said on 2 occasions as a rebuke to his friends in Job 42:7,8 - "You have not spoken right like my servant Job"

How could God say that when we know Job did speak out or order ....God sees and judges the heart and takes into account the amount of suffering and in Jobs case it was at the most extreme a human could endure.

That's what makes Job so powerful that a man could suffer so much and stay faithful to God
Job never lost his faith even though he wanted to die due to his pain

Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit have on far far far less pressures whined, complained, murmured, swore and some sadly end up forsaking and speaking evil about God

That's another typical misconception, that God was pleased with Job's entire speech just because he commends him in Job 42:7-8. God just stated in chapter 38 that Job was speaking words without wisdom and Job himself acknowledged that at the beginning of chapter 42. So when God commends him in verses 7-8 he does so based on Job's repentance and not based on his previous speeches. This is what God commends :

42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said:
2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
4 Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’
5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.
6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”

God didn't commend what Job spoke before God said this :

38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

42:1-6 is Job's answer that God requested of him in 38:3.

[Cardinal TT]

Something the Lord showed me which I never heard as every preacher condemned Job's wife.

The Lord revealed to not judge Job's wife wrongly because she had lost everything as well including all her children and finally was watching her husband dying in unbearable pain. Seriously that is horrific for a mother and wife to suffer.

It is easy to judge her because she told Job to curse God which was wrong but how many take into account her frame of mind and emotional pain.
How many men and woman could go through her pain without complaining.

She only spoke wrongly once....it is not recorded again

Then the Lord showed me this.
If she was a bad woman why did she ALSO inherit the double portion and get everything back as well as bare Job 10 more children.

God took into account her horrific grief when she spoke wrongly and in his wisdom could see that deep down she was a godly woman.

There are many things in the book of Job that the church has not discerned accurately and we end up making glib and unwise conclusions.