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Thread: Judgement?

  1. #11
    Pre trib, pre anti-Christ is what I was many years ago before getting way off the track. I've come back to this belief but now and then I waver.

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    FireBrand (12-22-2018)

  3. #12
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    Until the rider on the white horse shows up we are under grace. We are nowhere near the fierce judgments described in the bible, not even close and we should still be accepting, preaching and walking in the grace of Jesus Christ. Preach the GOOD news in season and out.

    I'm a mid-tribber.

    Historically we've been through much darker times, as a nation we have experienced the Civil War, WW1 and WW2. Our current "woes" pale in comparison.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Until the rider on the white horse shows up we are under grace. We are nowhere near the fierce judgments described in the bible, not even close and we should still be accepting, preaching and walking in the grace of Jesus Christ. Preach the GOOD news in season and out.

    I'm a mid-tribber.

    Historically we've been through much darker times, as a nation we have experienced the Civil War, WW1 and WW2. Our current "woes" pale in comparison.
    The one thing most dont understand when trying to read into the Great Tribulation is that when the Scriptures declare it as being “great” it means just that and will be unprecedented in suffering with both mankind and indeed all of creation will be hit HARD. The Preterists I know all say “bring it on” and foolishly say so. Jesus is coming back for a spotless and glorious Bride, we are far from that here in the USA.

  5. #14
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    The one thing most dont understand when trying to read into the Great Tribulation is that when the Scriptures declare it as being “great” it means just that and will be unprecedented in suffering with both mankind and indeed all of creation will be hit HARD. The Preterists I know all say “bring it on” and foolishly say so. Jesus is coming back for a spotless and glorious Bride, we are far from that here in the USA.
    That's the thing right there, "reading into" the Great Tribulation. Most of us do an interpretation that mixes allegory with chronology, which means you get mixed views. Since most teachings on this topic are all over the board I sat down one time and did straight up chronology, that's why I believe "mid-trib". To me it is quite apparent but again I didn't go down any allegorical rabbit holes. I don't believe that the book of Revelations is a great mystery even though most believers approach it as such.

  6. #15
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Agreed, but I don't believe that God is judging and pouring out judgement collectively on nations today.
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Until the rider on the white horse shows up we are under grace. We are nowhere near the fierce judgments described in the bible, not even close and we should still be accepting, preaching and walking in the grace of Jesus Christ. Preach the GOOD news in season and out.
    I tend to agree with this.

    As far as the rapture, it's something I've never been settled on my whole Christian life. No way I can dogmatically and definitively declare that one 'theory' is true over another. I started out COG as far as being saved, they they were pre. I went to Brownsville for and they were AOG which is pre, but Dr. Brown and many of the faculty at BRSM were post trib, or at least not pre or mid. I just don't think the definitive evidence is there for pre. Or in my case for any of them really. The rapture is a teaching that is very subjective and speculative in my opinion.

  7. #16
    I may be with the Lord in glory tomorrow.

  8. #17
    So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    I may be with the Lord in glory tomorrow.
    The where is more important than the when.

    For me, the trib debates boil down to that.

  9. #18
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    I may be with the Lord in glory tomorrow.
    Well you could get somebody to punch your ticket if you're yearning all that much.

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Well you could get somebody to punch your ticket if you're yearning all that much.
    I have no doubts of this.

  11. #20
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    The rapture is found to occur in Mark 13:24-27.
    And He will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens (v. 27). This is the rapture.
    The elect will be gathered from earth to heaven and it occurs after the tribulation.
    But in those days, after the tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,
    and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
    And they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds,
    from the furthest end of the earth, to the furthest end of heaven (Mark 13: 24-27).

    Another well-known passage is found in 1 Corinthians 15: 51-52.
    Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
    The rapture is when our bodies will be changed and will occur when the last trumpet is sounded.
    This event is called a "mystery."

    The rapture is also found over in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
    Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy,
    report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until
    the apostacy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
    The antichrist will be revealed before the rapture and the church will still be here.

    In Revelation 11: 15-18 the seventh angel sounds his trumpet, and the time has come for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great .The seventh trumpet is the last trumpet.
    This is also when God's wrath begins and the saints are rewarded.
    Luke 14:14 says the rewards will be given out at the resurrection of the righteous (after our being gathered to Him, the rapture).
    But before the seventh angel sounds his trumpet, we read this in Revelation 10:7.
    But in those days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
    Folks, the rapture is a "mystery" in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and here in Revelation 10:7 at the last trumpet--the seventh one.
    This means all that is described during the first six trumpets will be experienced by the last generation of Christians.

    Over in Revelation 20:4-6, The apostle John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection.Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.
    The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
    The first resurrection (catching way, rapture) will occur after Christians are beheaded for remaining faithful during the time of the antichrist.
    Compared to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, the picture comes clear that the rapture will occur after the tribulation period and we face the antichrist.

    More evidence that the saints will face the antichrist before the first resurrection occurs is found over in Revelation 3:10.
    If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed.
    This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on part of the saints. (And this is not the tribulation saints as some have said.)
    Yes, there will be a rapture (a catching up), as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

    For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

    But before that event comes to pass, the Book of Revelation teaches an all-out nuclear exchange with massive devastation and death will occur.
    The "Left Behind" series of books and movies have done much harm instilling false hopes that we won't be here to experience such devastation.
    One can only wonder how many will have their faith shattered, if they survive the all-out nuclear exchange with billions perishing.
    Will they forsake Christ and God's word because they were taught they would be taken away before such happens?
    What about facing antichrist and his dreaded mark? Will they accept or reject it? After all, I was told by the preacher that I would escape all this by a "secret rapture"!
    Perhaps the "apostacy" and "falling away" as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 will come to pass during this time on earth.

    Let me close this post out by mentioning that a wonderful paradise in God's eternal kingdom awaits the overcomer who remains faithful to God even if it cost's them their life.

    They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; and they did not love their life even to death(Rev 12:11).
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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