Page 2 of 22 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 218

Thread: Joyce Meyer - Theology Concerns?

  1. #11
    Jew and Greek answered #5 in his videos. I think. The quote is a severe contraction that changes the meaning. JM is NOT saying "believing Jesus went to hell" is a requirement to go to heaven

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Jonathan david For This Useful Post:

    Quest (11-21-2018)

  3. #12
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    I was working through some of the HH accusations, which are typically trumped-up mis-characterizations. I am about to get into it with another false-accuser online.
    But here are some of the allegations on CARM (Quotes from YouTube or The most important decision you'll ever make, by Joyce Meyer - most will get the eye-roll, I know. Any comment/responses/defense?

    I believe Jew and Greek has some answers on this...

    https://carm.org/joyce-meyer

    1 - Jesus stopped being the Son of God: "He could have helped himself up until the point where he said I commend my spirit into your hands, at that point he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God.

    2 - Jesus was born again: "The minute that blood sacrifice was accepted Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again," (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neKsa...eature=related)

    3 - Jesus paid for our sins in hell: "He became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days. During that time he entered hell, where you and I deserve to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there."

    4 - Jesus went to hell in our place and was tormented: "Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. Then as God had promised, on the third day Jesus rose from the dead. The scene in the spirit realm went something like this: God rose up from his throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless son of God, 'let him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. On earth his grave where they had buried him was filled with light as the power of God filled his body. He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born again man."

    5 - If you don't believe Jesus went to hell, you cannot be saved: "His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go... There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth."

    6 - We are called little gods: "I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this..this kind of gets the point across...he said why do people have such a fit about God calling his creation, his creation, his man not his whole creation, but his man, little gods?

    7 - Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: "I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time."
    Well Joyce is basically WOF and we know how HH feels about that.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Quest (11-21-2018)

  5. #13
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    Jew and Greek answered #5 in his videos. I think. The quote is a severe contraction that changes the meaning. JM is NOT saying "believing Jesus went to hell" is a requirement to go to heaven
    Yeah, I was gonna say I doubt she believes that is required for salvation.

  6. #14
    #3 If your gonna call JM a heretic for believing Jesus was tormented in hell, then you also have to call John Calvin a heretic on this as well.

    Preachers will do well to read Calvin closely when he expounds the line in the Apostles’ Creed, “He descended into hell.” (Institutes II. 16. 8-12)

    Calvin argues this Jesus ‘descent into hell’ was not merely descending into physical death and the grave. He believes it represents biblical teaching that Jesus suffered not just bodily pain but all the torments that a soul in hell, cut off from God’s presence, would experience. He “bore all the punishments [evildoers] ought to have sustained” with only one exception, that those torments could not keep hold of him forever. He “suffered the death that God in his wrath had inflicted upon the wicked.” (II.16.10). Calvin does not mince words here. “Not only that Christ’s body was given as the price of our redemption, but that he paid a greater and more excellent price in suffering in his soul the terrible torments of a condemned and forsaken man.” (II.16.10) And he says: “Surely no more terrible abyss can be conceived than to feel yourself forsaken and estranged from God; and when you call upon him, not to be heard. It is as if God himself had plotted your ruin.” (II.16.11)

    https://derekzrishmawy.com/2017/07/3...by-tim-keller/

  7. #15
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Point 3 ...Jesus didn't pay for our sins in hell

    We Celebrate communion of the body and blood for our redemption we don't celebrate a mystical Jesus' spirit in hell as part of our salvation

    Its a false teaching but you don't lose your salvation over it

  8. #16
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Point 3 ...Jesus didn't pay for our sins in hell

    We Celebrate communion of the body and blood for our redemption we don't celebrate a mystical Jesus' spirit in hell as part of our salvation

    Its a false teaching but it won't send anyone to hell
    No way she said 5. Nobody that believes that Jesus suffered in hell says that. I've never heard that in all my 41 years.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Quest (11-21-2018)

  10. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    I was working through some of the HH accusations, which are typically trumped-up mis-characterizations. I am about to get into it with another false-accuser online.
    But here are some of the allegations on CARM (Quotes from YouTube or The most important decision you'll ever make, by Joyce Meyer - most will get the eye-roll, I know. Any comment/responses/defense?

    I believe Jew and Greek has some answers on this...

    https://carm.org/joyce-meyer

    1 - Jesus stopped being the Son of God: "He could have helped himself up until the point where he said I commend my spirit into your hands, at that point he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God.

    2 - Jesus was born again: "The minute that blood sacrifice was accepted Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again," (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neKsa...eature=related)

    3 - Jesus paid for our sins in hell: "He became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days. During that time he entered hell, where you and I deserve to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there."

    4 - Jesus went to hell in our place and was tormented: "Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. Then as God had promised, on the third day Jesus rose from the dead. The scene in the spirit realm went something like this: God rose up from his throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless son of God, 'let him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. On earth his grave where they had buried him was filled with light as the power of God filled his body. He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born again man."

    5 - If you don't believe Jesus went to hell, you cannot be saved: "His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go... There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth."

    6 - We are called little gods: "I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this..this kind of gets the point across...he said why do people have such a fit about God calling his creation, his creation, his man not his whole creation, but his man, little gods?

    7 - Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: "I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time."
    You should start some new threads in the Theological Discussion forum on a few of those, would be some good topics.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to krystian For This Useful Post:

    Quest (11-21-2018), Smitty (11-27-2018)

  12. #18
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    No way she said 5. Nobody that believes that Jesus suffered in hell says that. I've never heard that in all my 41 years.
    I accept she didn't say that so changed my comment to address point 3

  13. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    You should start some new threads in the Theological Discussion forum on a few of those, would be some good topics.
    Yeah, At first I thought it would be a simple discussion, but now this could be a major deal now with so many points.

  14. #20
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    The carm rebuttal seems to involve the usual JDS controversy plus some misunderstandings.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Quest (11-21-2018)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Volkswagen CC warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.