Ken Ham Calls Andy Stanley a 'False Teacher'

[Femme*]

if by "different" you mean, toss out the OT, say that the 10 commandments have no relevance anymore for believers, then I think his idea of "different" is wholly unacceptable.

I'm not sure what you mean by "presuppositions"

[Jonathan david]

Can you give me the video location where he says those things?

The presupposition that pastors typically used to have was that the congregation took it as a given that the Bible was the Word of God, without error, etc. Then he just opened the Bible to Chapter X, and the people totally received what the pastor preached with open and grateful hearts.

This is no longer a good presupposition, and Stanley says he starts with the person of Jesus from historical cultural and logical perspectives.

He does use Scriptures, but has an emphasis of connecting them to real life issues for the person that may not be a "Bible in hand" type, but with some reservations about "church."

BTW, I am choosing to place the GRACE CARD here and try to understand what his mission and vision is :)

[Jonathan david]

BTW, I had a chat with one person who went to Andys church yesterday. He is the intellectual type and I was asking him about depth in faith and teaching there.

He goes there regularly and seems to have some level of commitment.

He agreed with my thought that if the pastor doesnt go deep enough in the Scriptures, its ON US to see that we do. He admitted he didnt go deep in God due to limited bandwidth.

[Jonathan david]

Andy points out that discipleship is an emphasis in his church. I take it that he means that the more in-depth teaching and spiritual development happens there.

This is the part that the TV crowd does not see and hopefully happens.

[Jonathan david]

Humorous Sidebar: I suggested to my co-worker who went to Andys church: Try reading Tozer, as a way of discovering intimacy with God not just theological concepts.

He then responded with "I am not interested in Tozer, as he is a Calvinist." I responded with the fact that he was Arminian, which I gleaned from his writings (e.g. he uses the term prevenient grace.)

He accepted the correction.

[FireBrand]

BTW, I had a chat with one person who went to Andys church yesterday. He is the intellectual type and I was asking him about depth in faith and teaching there.

He goes there regularly and seems to have some level of commitment.

He agreed with my thought that if the pastor doesnt go deep enough in the Scriptures, its ON US to see that we do. He admitted he didnt go deep in God due to limited bandwidth.

“Limited bandwidth”? Could you help me with this? I like the discipline and desire to “go deeper”. That is the word and direction the Lord has given me for our church. I assume that people are “disciple enough” to study deeper than what I have time to preach. But then, I am reaping the harvest of the Willow Creek model here where the church was steeped in it, have become conditioned to 20min sermonettes.

[fuego]

"Limited bandwidth"?

Get him baptized in the Holy Ghost and that will open up his 'bandwidth'.

[FireBrand]

Get him baptized in the Holy Ghost and that will open up his ‘bandwidth’.

No doubt about it!

[Femme*]

Can you give me the video location where he says those things?

The presupposition that pastors typically used to have was that the congregation took it as a given that the Bible was the Word of God, without error, etc. Then he just opened the Bible to Chapter X, and the people totally received what the pastor preached with open and grateful hearts.

Thus is no longer a good presupposition, and Stanley says he starts with the person of Jesus from historical cultural and logical perspectives.

He does use Scriptures, but has an emphasis of connecting them to real life issues for the person that may not be a "Bible in hand" type, but with some reservations about "church."

As for the OT info, there was a whole thread here about it.

And the 10 Commandments thing was in the news just yesterday.



BTW, I am choosing to place the GRACE CARD here and try to understand what his mission and vision is :)

Where, exactly, does he get his information about Jesus if not from the Bible? What other source would be considered more reliable?

As for the OT thing.. there was a whole thread about it here.

and the 10 Commandments thing was in the news just yesterday.

[Colonel]

BTW, I am choosing to place the GRACE CARD here and try to understand what his mission and vision is :)

From watching part of the video but not all I'd say that it's probably to get as many people as possible to show up in the church building and to have as large a ministry as possible. Then he hopes that the result is that as many as possible will be able to enter heaven. The eventual result of all inclusive Christianity is that it erodes the Church until noone cares any longer. But it might work for him personally in terms of church attendance.