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Thread: Jim Caviezel: New 'Passion of the Christ' to be 'biggest film in history'

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Modern Israeli (Modern Orthodox) Jews freely associate themselves with the Pharisees of the first century. The reason they do is because they love the Bible, want to act out the wishes of God as written in the Bible and refuse to accept the dilution of the Bible by modern "Higher Criticism," political correctness or even modern technology. The Sadducees of the first century did not accept the Bible as a literal message from God, did not believe in resurrection from the dead, did cooperate with the Romans, did allow bribery as a means of achieving office and many more elements of what we would call political correctness in this century. Jesus grew up in a geographical area that was predominantly Pharisee. He often made statements to correct things taught by the Pharisees but He did that by pointing them to the Bible and the teachings of their own elders. It seems clear that He was giving correction to the group that were around Him and that his reproof was usually accepted as having authority within the society.
    I should point out that the high priest at the time of the crucifixion was a man who was appointed to office by the Romans and was not accepted by the Pharisees because it was well known that the office of high priest was purchased. Many of these facts are written in the scrolls found at Qumran including scrolls brought there by priest who escaped Jerusalem at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Not all of the scrolls found at Qumran were from the Essenes, some of them were hidden by priest from Jerusalem in "Cave 3" a little north of Qumran.
    I hope that helps. I do have more information of some of the things in other sources if you need but it would be difficult to get that for you since it is written in very expensive books that I cannot copy.
    The gospels record an entirely different reason why they had Jesus put to death, one that had little to do with alignment or lack of alignment with what Jesus stood for.

    Mat 27:18 For he knew that they had handed Him over because of envy.

    Mark 15:10 For he knew that the chief priests had handed Him over because of envy.

    If anything an alignment with what Jesus stood for would be more likely to bring the Pharisees and Scribes to envy him since he was more popular with the people, God confirmed his teachings with miracles and he spoke as one with authority as opposed to the Scribes :

    Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

    The same thing happens again in the book of Acts, envy produces persecution from many of the Jews :

    Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
    44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
    That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
    48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
    49 And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. 50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. 51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post

    Acts 13:44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
    That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

    48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    49 And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. 50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. 51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium.
    We can't ignore the above bolded parts of scripture ..it is the unpalatable truth and inspired by the Holy Spirit to be recorded.
    Even though Jews still accepted Jesus the majority started to reject the gospel and the apostles were shaking the dust off their feet in regard to the Jews rejection of Christ

    Many Jews then got worse by publically blaspheming the name of Jesus and stirring up the crowds to riot and physically attack Christians.
    I know this isn't what many want to hear but it was actually the Jews according to scripture that started the hatred against Christians and used the local govt officials to promote violence

    Anti-Semitism is evil and there is no excuse by the gentiles to persecute the Jews but God clearly shows us it was the Jews that originated the persecution and violence against Christians which continued for a long time

    Paul himself loved Israel and wanted them to be saved but wrote incredibly harsh words. The Jews were not innocent but ended up bringing terrible judgment on themselves.
    This doesn't mean the holocaust or hatred of the Jews is justified or defensible...it was a evil act perpetrated by satan and carried out by evil men but from God's viewpoint he also saw the persecution and death of many Christians by the Jews who used the Roman govt.

    1Th 2:14 - For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans,
    1Th 2:15 - who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men,
    1Th 2:16 - forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

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  4. #33
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    1 Cor 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness

    Rom 11:9 And David says:
    “Let their table become a snare and a trap,
    A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
    10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
    And bow down their back always.”
    11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
    12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
    13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
    14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.

    The stumbling block makes them stumble and provokes them to jealousy. The Greek word used in Acts 13:45 means zeal, envy, jealousy. Their being provoked in this way does at least mean that they can repent to Him, which means it is better than their not reacting at all.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    1Th 2:14 - For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans,
    1Th 2:15 - who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men.
    Verse 15 is interesting because it ties in with things that Jesus said :

    Mat 23:29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
    31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

    Note that he was speaking to the Pharisees and the Scribes rather than to the Sadducees. He lumps them in with religious men from the OT who professed to follow God but who killed the prophets that God sent. Scripture records them as ungodly but that is not what they thought of themselves. Same thing with the Pharisees and Scribes that Jesus addressed, as the previous verses demonstrate :

    27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

    They would secretly plot to kill Jesus then the next day they would teach in the synagogue on how to perfect one's righteousness by tithing from one's garden herbs.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    For the record, I have seen all of these "Proof texts" that show the Jews hate Jesus and killed Him. And I know that there is no salvation in the works of the law. The reason I wrote is to suggest that it is not appropriate to blame the Jewish People, Nation or race for the death of Jesus. His death, burial, resurrection and our salvation are the most fantastic events in all of history. I am grateful for the Jewish people who preserved both the old testament and the record of the revelation of Messiah and His followers in the first century. There are people still today who would prefer to forget that heritage. Some would even prefer to hate and destroy the historic context of God's revelation to the world.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    For the record, I have seen all of these "Proof texts" that show the Jews hate Jesus and killed Him. And I know that there is no salvation in the works of the law. The reason I wrote is to suggest that it is not appropriate to blame the Jewish People, Nation or race for the death of Jesus. His death, burial, resurrection and our salvation are the most fantastic events in all of history. I am grateful for the Jewish people who preserved both the old testament and the record of the revelation of Messiah and His followers in the first century. There are people still today who would prefer to forget that heritage. Some would even prefer to hate and destroy the historic context of God's revelation to the world.
    An interesting question is to which degree current religious Jews share in the sentiments of those that killed Jesus or at least in the mindset that produced those sentiments in them. Perhaps some of them are still provoked to jealousy as Paul talked about and instead of repenting to God many choose to reject and persecute instead, while claiming that the "real" Messiah would have been "different" - which probably means nothing more than "pleasing to all flesh".

  8. #37
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Christians are doing an incredibly poor job of provoking anyone to jealousy. However, a better translation of that passage would be, Provoking to zealousness. Now that is a project worthy of this generation.

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