Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?

[FunFromOz]

What is the original meaning of what ?

C'mon.

How about Original Sin and the Sovereignty of God for starters

[Colonel]

C'mon.

How about Original Sin and the Sovereignty of God for starters

Since what we are discussing is sovereignty, please show me how I have altered the meaning of the word, based on a dictionary of the English language.

[Cardinal TT]

I think there are some here who do not believe that God is "completely sovereign." It seems like they say His sovereignty is limited by the free will of man.

Red Herring Alert.....the phrase sovereign/completely sovereign does not belong to calvinistic thinking

Did God give sole authority to calvinism to be judge, jury and executioner on the meaning of sovereignty

It is offensive to claim a word and then criticise your opponents who reject your definition of the word sovereignty


God is GREATER than the narrow minded thinking of certain calvinist doctrine


(btw I don't reject all calvinist doctrine as much of it is biblical)

[Bookman]

Red Herring Alert.....the phrase sovereign/completely sovereign does not belong to calvinistic thinking

Did God give sole authority to calvinism to be judge, jury and executioner on the meaning of sovereignty

It is offensive to claim a word and then criticise your opponents who reject your definition of the word sovereignty


God is GREATER than the narrow minded thinking of certain calvinist doctrine


(btw I don't reject all calvinist doctrine as much of it is biblical)

http://www.christianity.com/theology...-11555729.html

[Cardinal TT]

http://www.christianity.com/theology...-11555729.html

Andddddddd....there doesn't seem to be many who can truly define sovereignty according to all the revelation of God in scripture.
Statements are made which are true but they do not explain the actual workings of God's sovereignty on earth.

This has been mentioned before and it goes over the head of those who don't like God truly exercising his sovereignty.

There are many things that God has sovereignly placed into the hands of man. He expects man to make godly choices so the will of God takes place on earth. If man chooses to do evil then the will of God is thwarted and many things happen that are not part of Gods plan.

God in his sovereignty has limited himself in certain areas as he wants man to use the free will he has given him to choose good. He expects man to live by the choices he has made hence reap and sowing

Look at the parables of the talents and stewards. God gives man abilities and he is responsible to build his house on a rock and use his gifts for good.
In many things...... God sovereignly DOES NOT INTERFERE

His ultimate plan will stay happen because he can take all of mans choices and still bring about his purpose.

[Cardinal TT]

Let me make a true biblical doctrinal statement

God is totally sovereign over everything.

God in his sovereignty has ordained to limit himself in certain areas regarding his commission of man to have dominion over the earth.

Mans choices in those specific areas of commissioning and responsibility become the foundation of whether good or evil occurs on earth and God will not interfere with his first spoken authority given to Adam.

God as sovereign chooses to use man to bring about his will as he has limited himself to those boundaries.

If man does not submit and obey God when he speaks then the will of God in that instance can be hindered temporarily or worse totally nullified forever.

We must remember ...God cannot lie....whatever he spoke to Adam he cannot rescind and therefore he must use man to bring about his will and purposes.

If God breaks his own character and principles then he can be accused of being a liar.

God due to his greatness can still turn around many of mans wrong choices.

God where he has limited himself due to his own SOVEREIGN WORD has still the power to bring about his Ultimate Plan of mans full redemption.

[Bookman]

Cardinal, there are MANY instances in the Bible where God's sovereignty trumped man's "wrong" decisions. Joseph, Jonah, David's sin with Bathsheba resulting eventually in the birth of Solomon (do you think Solomon was born out of God's will?). Even the crucifixion was man's evil decision made right by God's design. I am here on earth because several generations ago there was a rape that resulted in a pregnancy. The rape was evil and cannot be laid at God's feet anymore than Job's troubles can be laid at God's feet, but as with Job and the other stories in the Bible, God chooses to carry out his predetermined will through the agency of man's free will.

[Cardinal TT]

Many years ago there was a lovely Christian lady attending our church and she told me in her previous church her daughter was sexaully abused by the pastor.

Only due to God's goodness and the prayers and support of other believers has brought this family through

It was never ordained by God that the child be sexually abused by the pastor

[Cardinal TT]

Cardinal, there are MANY instances in the Bible where God's sovereignty trumped man's "wrong" decisions. Joseph, Jonah, David's sin with Bathsheba resulting eventually in the birth of Solomon (do you think Solomon was born out of God's will?). Even the crucifixion was man's evil decision made right by God's design. I am here on earth because several generations ago there was a rape that resulted in a pregnancy. The rape was evil and cannot be laid at God's feet anymore than Job's troubles can be laid at God's feet, but as with Job and the other stories in the Bible, God chooses to carry out his predetermined will through the agency of man's free will.

Did you read my above comments....I made it clear that God can turn around mans evil for good but that does not mean evil is ordained by God

[Bookman]

Did you read my above comments....I made it clear that God can turn around mans evil for good but that does not mean evil is ordained by God

Yes. That's why I wrote

The rape was evil and cannot be laid at God's feet anymore than Job's troubles can be laid at God's feet, but as with Job and the other stories in the Bible, God chooses to carry out his predetermined will through the agency of man's free will.