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Thread: Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?

  1. #131
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Please refer to thread http://livingfaithforum.com/forum/sh...tudy-Calvinism

    All is explained




    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    That entire post is one of the most ridiculous, twisted things I have ever heard.

    And then to lay it off on God...

    Here are the words of our Lord...


    Luke 13:34 (YLT)
    'Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that is killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto her, how often did I will to gather together thy children, as a hen her brood under the wings, and ye did not will.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Which one, I've found four versions so far and who knows, you may come up with yet another.
    I suggest you go to the book forum and read the latest post in the thread about the Pentecostal pioneer Aimee Semple McPherson. There is a definition there of prevenient grace that is a quote from one of her sermons. I find that one totally agreeable and I doubt that any non-Calvinist here would find it objectionable.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Which was ordained by God.
    That's the problem with Calvinism, the concept of God ordaining everything sort of exists independently of scripture and is read into any account from scripture, making it precede and trump anything that is going on there. For instance :

    Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to*gather*your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under*her*wings, but*you*were not willing!

    Reading "God ordained it all" into the statement as an explanation for what really happened makes Jesus a blatant liar. Or alternatively, a different god who is opposing the one in the background. A house that is divided against itself cannot stand. Unless they are just pretending and only appear to be divided.

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  5. #134
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Here's another one :

    Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal which*are*in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through*the fire*to Molech, which I did*not*command them, nor did it come into My*mind*that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.’

    Again we have the following possibilities :

    * God is a blatant liar
    * There is an other, higher god in the background who is ordaining it all and he doesn't care much about relations to human beings, he simply does whatever he pleases

    I know a religion where the latter version is basically what they believe in and relate to. Some of them even try to emulate him by working up a display of non-human, alienlike perfection. The religion is called Islam.

    Jesus came to reveal and do the will of the Father. So as Christians we know what God is like and we ought to know better than to think that there is a different version working in the background, somewhere behind the one speaking.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    There is noone here who does not believe that God is completely sovereign. The meme is nothing more than some Calvinist preaching to the choir with an implicit meaning that isn't contained in the word used.

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  10. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    There is noone here who does not believe that God is completely sovereign. The meme is nothing more than some Calvinist preaching to the choir with an implicit meaning that isn't contained in the word used.
    I think there are some here who do not believe that God is "completely sovereign." It seems like they say His sovereignty is limited by the free will of man.

  11. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    I think there are some here who do not believe that God is "completely sovereign." It seems like they say His sovereignty is limited by the free will of man.
    That's another Calvinist buzz expression that is commonly preached to the choir and which does not reflect what the other side believes. God can override and control anything, the real question is if he chooses to and why / why not. If he chooses not to then that is simply how he chooses to employ or not to employ his sovereignty, to demand that he cannot do so is to attempt to control the sovereign. Meaning the Calvinist is trying to limit God according to the Calvinist's own desire !

  12. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    That's another Calvinist buzz expression that is commonly preached to the choir and which does not reflect what the other side believes.
    And therein lies a problem.

    "The other side" claim to believe something but have changed the original meaning somewhat; which means they really don't.

  13. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    And therein lies a problem.

    "The other side" claim to believe something but have changed the original meaning somewhat; which means they really don't.
    What is the original meaning of what ?

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