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Thread: Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?

    Oz stated this in another thread and it really jumped out at me. I didn't want to hijack that thread so here we are-
    However in Calvinism the Perpetuity of the Saints is based on God choosing who He would save before the foundation of the world; before anyone existed, writing their names at that point in the Lamb's book of life. As it's already decided and in writing, we can't even go to "anyone can" be saved let alone "everyone will" be saved.
    God is not the Author of confusion.
    With that thought in mind, we have to decide whether or not to go with the doctrine of "We can't even go to 'anyone can' be saved" or to stick with what is plainly shown in the scriptures, which is the same revelation that Peter had in Acts 10:34-35.

    If we cannot believe that "anyone can be saved", then why are we called to spend so much time fulfilling the "Great Commission" of the gospels, where Jesus Himself also states that "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."???


    Does the Father deeply desire that none would perish?
    Does He desire that all would repent and come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ?
    Or is He just distracting us with much business because He has nothing else for us to do while waiting for the return of Christ?
    There is much suffering in the world. There are many places and peoples in need of great benevolence. And yet, He has told us to go preach the gospel to every creature.

    Does God desire to have every prodigal return to Him or not?


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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I think the problem here is the usual Calvinist/Open-Theist claim that foreknowledge necessitates predestination.

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    If we cannot believe that "anyone can be saved", then why are we called to spend so much time fulfilling the "Great Commission" of the gospels, where Jesus Himself also states that "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."???
    We all preach the Gospel for the same reason, because God commanded it. Perhaps we can see it as one of those illogical things (that's for my mate the Colonel) we believe like animal sacrifices covering sin therefore a human sacrifice washing away sin. Not that He was just human, but equally God coming from a virgin birth.

    However we differ in what we believe happens when the Gospel is preached. Yes "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" but some of us aren't afraid of the verses that indicate that not all CAN believe.

    So we preach the gospel because we think this:

    Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?-capture-jpg

    or because we think this:

    Are Romans 10:11 & 10:13 false scriptures?-capture-jpg

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I think the problem here is the usual Calvinist/Open-Theist claim that foreknowledge necessitates predestination.
    Well the idea that God made the universe with absolutely no idea before hand as to how it would turn out (which goes against the Doctrines of His omnipotence and omniscience) and then had to look down time to find out what was going to happen with his creation (<scarcism>and obviously then having to say "Oops! Oh my self, what have I done"</scarcasm>) is illogical to me I'm afraid.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Perhaps we can see it as one of those illogical things (that's for my mate the Colonel) we believe like animal sacrifices covering sin therefore a human sacrifice washing away sin.
    How is that illogical ? Something not being explained by natural criteria does not imply that it is illogical.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Well the idea that God made the universe with absolutely no idea before hand as to how it would turn out (which goes against the Doctrines of His omnipotence and omniscience) and then had to look down time to find out what was going to happen with his creation (<scarcism>and obviously then having to say "Oops! Oh my self, what have I done"</scarcasm>) is illogical to me I'm afraid.
    Your disliking something doesn't mean that it is illogical.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Well the idea that God made the universe with absolutely no idea before hand as to how it would turn out (which goes against the Doctrines of His omnipotence and omniscience) and then had to look down time to find out what was going to happen with his creation (<scarcism>and obviously then having to say "Oops! Oh my self, what have I done"</scarcasm>) is illogical to me I'm afraid.
    And scripture tells us His ways and thoughts are higher than ours...sometimes we have to accept what scripture says and then allow the Spirit to reconcile the illogical...

    It literally limits the sovereignty of God to say He could NOT do that...no matter how 'illogical' it seems to you.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    And scripture tells us His ways and thoughts are higher than ours...sometimes we have to accept what scripture says and then allow the Spirit to reconcile the illogical...

    It literally limits the sovereignty of God to say He could NOT do that...no matter how 'illogical' it seems to you.
    The term illogical has a much more narrow definition than the way most people use it. "God exists and God does also not exist" is illogical, for instance. Most people use it to include "what seams unreasonable to me" and their definition of "unreasonable" can be almost anything.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Are Romans 10:11 &amp; 10:13 false scriptures?-199fc1991d79d23592e4d467d3fd605721d7f238e9ffabc68e558542819e9a85-jpg

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Well the idea that God made the universe with absolutely no idea before hand as to how it would turn out (which goes against the Doctrines of His omnipotence and omniscience) and then had to look down time to find out what was going to happen with his creation (<scarcism>and obviously then having to say "Oops! Oh my self, what have I done"</scarcasm>) is illogical to me I'm afraid.
    Or how about God knew that when He created man with a free will there would be a failure on man's part, but He did it anyway because He desires a living relationship with man?
    Therefore, knowing before hand that man would fall, He also predestined Jesus to rescue His creation.

    Revelation 13:8 says that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. In other words, God already counted Him as dying for our sins, even before we fell.

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