View Poll Results: Do you understand why there was a Reformation and what it means to us today?

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Thread: Oct 31 is Reformation Day. Do you understand it?

  1. #1

    Oct 31 is Reformation Day. Do you understand it?

    A question on The Reformation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Highly Favoured's Avatar
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    There was a reformation because Martin Luther got a hold of the scriptures and actually read them.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muriel View Post
    There was a reformation because Martin Luther got a hold of the scriptures and actually read them.
    And while he had great intentions, he failed to reform all the way back to the book of Acts. His house was still built on the same sand that the Catholic church was built on.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    I think the Reformation was more about the Catholic church practices rather than Luther's revelation of 'the just shall live by faith'. Or at least initially.

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  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    And while he had great intentions, he failed to reform all the way back to the book of Acts. His house was still built on the same sand that the Catholic church was built on.
    Oct 31 is Reformation Day. Do you understand it?-capture-jpg

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Funny thing is, Reformed Theology denies the power of the gospel. If they would have "reformed" back to the book of Acts, that wouldn't be so.

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  11. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Funny thing is, Reformed Theology denies the power of the gospel. If they would have "reformed" back to the book of Acts, that wouldn't be so.
    Rom 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." In this Epistle, described as an "inspired masterpiece of gospel doctrine", its purpose being to "teach the great truths of the gospel of grace to believers who had never received apostolic instruction", Paul says that the Gospel is the power for salvation. And that is the greatest thing ever isn't it? Taking a sinners heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh.

    Does Reformed Theology deny this?

  12. #8
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Rom 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." In this Epistle, described as an "inspired masterpiece of gospel doctrine", its purpose being to "teach the great truths of the gospel of grace to believers who had never received apostolic instruction", Paul says that the Gospel is the power for salvation. And that is the greatest thing ever isn't it? Taking a sinners heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh.

    Does Reformed Theology deny this?
    If they push OSAS or "I am just a sinner saved by grace" doctrines then yes, they do deny the new birth experience. A born again person is a saint, not a sinner. You were a sinner, but then you were saved by God's grace and became a saint.
    They also neglect part of the original gospel message. That message hasn't changed since Peter first preached it: "Repent, and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit."

  13. #9
    Interesting points Ezekiel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    If they push OSAS
    The teaching on the Perseverance of the Saints is that the Elect cannot lose their salvation. Reformed theology teaches that as salvation is entirely the work of God the Father; Jesus Christ, the Saviour; and the Holy Spirit, it cannot be thwarted. We only come to Jesus because the Father draws us to Him. (John 6:44, 37-40).
    Non-reformed teaching has, by necessity, the need to reject this idea. Non-reformed theology teaches that we have to choose to be saved; we have to decide; as the Colonel once put it, we let God save us.

    In a non-reformed environment, once a person has "made a decision" they will be told that they've been born again; that they've been saved; that they're a Christian. In a reformed environment that doesn't happen. Salvation means change, so evidence of change is looked for. It's up to the person themselves to declare they've been saved, because only they know.

    So more consistency; in a non-reformed environment where people are presumed to be saved, if it now looks like they aren't then maybe they have lost their salvation. In a reformed environment if a person looks like they're not saved then it's presumed they never were.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    or "I am just a sinner saved by grace" doctrines then yes, they do deny the new birth experience. A born again person is a saint, not a sinner. You were a sinner, but then you were saved by God's grace and became a saint.
    James says, "Submit therefore to God. But resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God and He will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded."

    Paul wrote to the Timothy, "It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost." (Note Pauls writes "am", not "was").

    James, writing to "the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" calls them sinners. Paul says he is a sinner. When we say we're sinners saved by grace we're "not talking in technical theological terms", but acknowledging that we're still fleshly, that we still sin and will sin till we're glorified in heaven. Point in questions from another thread, Carl Lentz, the lead pastor for Hillsong NYC, terminated because of "leadership issues and breaches of trust, plus a recent revelation of moral failures". Can we say he's NOT a sinner?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    They also neglect part of the original gospel message. That message hasn't changed since Peter first preached it: "Repent, and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit."
    If you look at how the BHS is currently interpreted you might understand why reformed people seem to have issues with it.

    In the last couple of days we have people who claim to be prophets and said God said Trump would win back tracking when it don't look that way. We had KK speaking to hurricanes ("After about three days of utterly failing to control the hurricane, Kat Kerr claimed that she made a slight mistake: she claimed that hurricane Irma was continuing on its course to Florida because Florida was in a drought and needed water. This was a last ditch effort to explain her inability to control the hurricane."). We have KC claiming God destroyed C19 just before it started an upward trend in infections.

    People are doing things, claiming they are of God, but they don't line up with the Bible Ezekiel. Are reformed people neglecting, on not getting into things that are unbiblical?

  14. #10
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Interesting points Ezekiel.


    The teaching on the Perseverance of the Saints is that the Elect cannot lose their salvation. Reformed theology teaches that as salvation is entirely the work of God the Father; Jesus Christ, the Saviour; and the Holy Spirit, it cannot be thwarted. We only come to Jesus because the Father draws us to Him. (John 6:44, 37-40).
    Non-reformed teaching has, by necessity, the need to reject this idea. Non-reformed theology teaches that we have to choose to be saved; we have to decide; as the Colonel once put it, we let God save us. And that choice goes all the way back to the garden. They CHOSE to disobey God and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All throughout the OT you see Got telling them to choose life or death, blessing or curse. Noah wasn't forced onto the ark. He chose to believe God and to obey Him. As a result, he was saved. He could have chosen not to build the ark or not to enter the ark. It was his choice. God did not force him. This is a biblical theme. It carries all the way through the bible.

    In a non-reformed environment, once a person has "made a decision" they will be told that they've been born again; that they've been saved; that they're a Christian. In a reformed environment that doesn't happen. Salvation means change, so evidence of change is looked for. It's up to the person themselves to declare they've been saved, because only they know. Friend, it seems that you do not understand the supernatural nature of being born again. If someone is born again, they will know it and so will everyone around them.

    So more consistency; in a non-reformed environment where people are presumed to be saved, if it now looks like they aren't then maybe they have lost their salvation. In a reformed environment if a person looks like they're not saved then it's presumed they never were.



    James says, "Submit therefore to God. But resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God and He will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded." James was addressing those who were sinning in the church. He explains to them exactly how sin works in the life of a saint in chapter 1. Then in closing his epistle he tells them; "Brethren, if any from among you wanders from the truth (a backslider) let him know that he who turns a sinner (backslidden Christian) from the error of his way will save his soul and cover a multitude of sins (the sins which brought him into this backslidden condition).

    Paul wrote to the Timothy, "It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost." (Note Pauls writes "am", not "was"). Context bro. Paul was referring to how he felt because he had persecuted the church. He was responsible for the death and imprisonment of Christians. He was not saying that his life was so full of sin that he was the foremost of sinners.

    James, writing to "the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" calls them sinners. Paul says he is a sinner. When we say we're sinners saved by grace we're "not talking in technical theological terms", but acknowledging that we're still fleshly, that we still sin and will sin till we're glorified in heaven. Point in questions from another thread, Carl Lentz, the lead pastor for Hillsong NYC, terminated because of "leadership issues and breaches of trust, plus a recent revelation of moral failures". Can we say he's NOT a sinner?

    Friend, if you are still fleshly then you have not actually been born again. Let me tell you the will of God for your life-----Your sanctification, that you should learn how to possess your vessel in sanctification and honor and not like those who don't even know God.


    If you look at how the BHS is currently interpreted you might understand why reformed people seem to have issues with it. The Holy Spirit baptism is shown clearly in the book of Acts. It was promised in the OT. It was promised in the gospels. That promise was fulfilled on the day of pentecost. How do you interpret it? I would be interested to know.

    In the last couple of days we have people who claim to be prophets and said God said Trump would win back tracking when it don't look that way. We had KK speaking to hurricanes ("After about three days of utterly failing to control the hurricane, Kat Kerr claimed that she made a slight mistake: she claimed that hurricane Irma was continuing on its course to Florida because Florida was in a drought and needed water. This was a last ditch effort to explain her inability to control the hurricane."). We have KC claiming God destroyed C19 just before it started an upward trend in infections.

    People are doing things, claiming they are of God, but they don't line up with the Bible Ezekiel. Are reformed people neglecting, on not getting into things that are unbiblical?
    TULIP is un-biblical. The reformed movement has taken "Nothing can separate you from the love of God" and turned it into "Nothing can separate you from God". Sin in the life of a believer is just like when a family member or friend borrows a hundred dollars from you and then doesn't pay you back. Next thing you know, they are avoiding you. They stay away from you. They are separated from you. You can walk away from God. Sin will separate you from Him. And then if you die before you repent, it will be a sad eternity for you. Listen to James:
    James chapter 1
    12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

    16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

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