View Poll Results: Do you understand why there was a Reformation and what it means to us today?

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Thread: Oct 31 is Reformation Day. Do you understand it?

  1. #11
    Hope you can have a giggle at this:

    Oct 31 is Reformation Day. Do you understand it?-capture-jpg

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    You can walk away from God. Sin will separate you from Him. And then if you die before you repent, it will be a sad eternity for you. Listen to James:
    Have you looked at RCC doctrine Ezekiel, because that sounds very RCCish. But I digress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    And that choice goes all the way back to the garden. They CHOSE to disobey God and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All throughout the OT you see Got telling them to choose life or death, blessing or curse. Noah wasn't forced onto the ark. He chose to believe God and to obey Him. As a result, he was saved. He could have chosen not to build the ark or not to enter the ark. It was his choice. God did not force him. This is a biblical theme. It carries all the way through the bible.
    Reformed theology has no problem with choice. Also the word force/forced plays no part in Reformed theology.

    In a previous post you said "If they push OSAS ... then yes, they do deny the new birth experience" so let's go back to there. The thing is, people like to talk about (what you call) OSAS and Election but don't seem to discuss why those things are said. OSAS is at the end of the line. Reformed theologists believe we can't lose our salvation because they believe that we are saved by God's grace and God's grace alone. God's grace is given to those whom Christ died for, and the ones He died for are those He decided to save before He created the world, and based entirely on His will, His choice, not on anything we would or would not do. Finally we get to the starting point, why did God have to choose to save certain people? Well that has to do with the condition of man. Reformed theology teaches that man is "stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body (which) means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people".

    To understand why there are differences between Reformed and Non-reformed theology we need to start here and see how each see as the condition of man. Non-reformists such as the pre-Reformation Pelagius and Arminius and post-Reformation Wesley and Finney believe that there's enough spiritual life in man that, when called to salvation, he can, if he wants to, respond and be saved. Reformists believe that man is spiritually dead and if God gives him life he will believe.

    The Reformed believe that God saved them, it had nothing to do with them, and as God saved them God will keep them saved. The non-Reformed believe that they were instrumental in their salvation, they "allowed God to save them", which, in their minds, means they can reject or lost their salvation, something you allude to in your statement, "You can walk away from God. Sin will separate you from Him. And then if you die before you repent, it will be a sad eternity for you."

    If we look at what the Reformed and non-Reformed believe we see two very different paths, and that is because their starting points are so different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    The Holy Spirit baptism is shown clearly in the book of Acts. It was promised in the OT. It was promised in the gospels. That promise was fulfilled on the day of pentecost. How do you interpret it? I would be interested to know.
    I was saved on a Wednesday nearly 50 years ago. The Sunday a week later I had another experience and because I was in a Charismatic church I refer to this as the time I was Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

    I have R.A. Torrey's book on my Kindle which I should read as I've had no teaching on it for literally decades. The "church" I went to was started by "a power of God and revival pastor" whose daughter married the son of a "guy involved in the community". The Pastor died a week after handing the church over to them and, against good advice, they felt that God had clearly said to them to build a church that has both the power and the community. We've had two SSM supporters speak at out church (though not about ssm fortunately).

    This was published on-line yesterday and to me reflects the reality of things from 50 years ago till today, in spite of the hype, "Most of you know the moving story of the American evangelical Christian author, artist and speaker. Born in 1949 in Maryland, she was a very active, sports-loving girl. But all that came to a sudden halt in 1967 when she was just 17. A dive into shallow water left her paralysed from the shoulders down. And despite multi-millions of prayers from so many people, and two hard years of rehabilitation, she remains in that condition today." (https://billmuehlenberg.com/2020/11/...ng-and-heaven/)

  3. #13
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Have you looked at RCC doctrine Ezekiel, because that sounds very RCCish. But I digress.

    It is in your bible.

    Reformed theology has no problem with choice. Also the word force/forced plays no part in Reformed theology.

    In a previous post you said "If they push OSAS ... then yes, they do deny the new birth experience" so let's go back to there. The thing is, people like to talk about (what you call) OSAS and Election but don't seem to discuss why those things are said. OSAS is at the end of the line. Reformed theologists believe we can't lose our salvation because they believe that we are saved by God's grace and God's grace alone. God's grace is given to those whom Christ died for, and the ones He died for are those He decided to save before He created the world, and based entirely on His will, His choice, not on anything we would or would not do. Finally we get to the starting point, why did God have to choose to save certain people? Well that has to do with the condition of man. Reformed theology teaches that man is "stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body (which) means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people".


    Paul wrote to Titus; "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

    The Reformed position says that God's grace is irresistable. If that is the case, then everyone must be saved. Sounds like universalism is scriptural by that reasoning! But we know that it is not.



    To understand why there are differences between Reformed and Non-reformed theology we need to start here and see how each see as the condition of man. Non-reformists such as the pre-Reformation Pelagius and Arminius and post-Reformation Wesley and Finney believe that there's enough spiritual life in man that, when called to salvation, he can, if he wants to, respond and be saved. Reformists believe that man is spiritually dead and if God gives him life he will believe.

    The Reformed believe that God saved them, it had nothing to do with them, and as God saved them God will keep them saved. The non-Reformed believe that they were instrumental in their salvation, they "allowed God to save them", which, in their minds, means they can reject or lost their salvation, something you allude to in your statement, "You can walk away from God. Sin will separate you from Him. And then if you die before you repent, it will be a sad eternity for you."

    The writer of Hebrews has this to say:
    Now the just shall live by faith;
    But if anyone draws back,
    My soul has no pleasure in him."

    But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
    This goes along with what James wrote about one wandering from the truth.

    Paul went as far as telling some of the Galatians that they had fallen from grace. He wrote many, many other statements about continuing on to the very end.








    If we look at what the Reformed and non-Reformed believe we see two very different paths, and that is because their starting points are so different.


    I was saved on a Wednesday nearly 50 years ago. The Sunday a week later I had another experience and because I was in a Charismatic church I refer to this as the time I was Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

    I have R.A. Torrey's book on my Kindle which I should read as I've had no teaching on it for literally decades. The "church" I went to was started by "a power of God and revival pastor" whose daughter married the son of a "guy involved in the community". The Pastor died a week after handing the church over to them and, against good advice, they felt that God had clearly said to them to build a church that has both the power and the community. We've had two SSM supporters speak at out church (though not about ssm fortunately).

    This was published on-line yesterday and to me reflects the reality of things from 50 years ago till today, in spite of the hype, "Most of you know the moving story of the American evangelical Christian author, artist and speaker. Born in 1949 in Maryland, she was a very active, sports-loving girl. But all that came to a sudden halt in 1967 when she was just 17. A dive into shallow water left her paralysed from the shoulders down. And despite multi-millions of prayers from so many people, and two hard years of rehabilitation, she remains in that condition today." (Joni Eareckson Tada on Health, Healing and Heaven - CultureWatch)
    We don't save ourselves. But we do choose to accept or deny the salvation that God has provided for all mankind by His grace.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    We don't save ourselves. But we do choose to accept or deny the salvation that God has provided for all mankind by His grace.
    The Reformed position says that God's grace is irresistable. If that is the case, then everyone must be saved. Sounds like universalism is scriptural by that reasoning! But we know that it is not.

    Word meanings Ezekiel.

    Irresistible grace is a doctrine known primarily within Reformed Theology (Calvinism) which states that the grace with which God saves an individual cannot be successfully resisted by the sinner when he becomes saved. This does not mean that unbelievers cannot generally resist the grace of God, for they surely do. It means that when it comes time for a person to become saved, the saving grace of God upon them cannot be successfully resisted. It is effectual because God's grace overcomes the rebellion of the unregenerate.

    ...

    It is in the preaching of the gospel that the effectual call of God upon the sinner is manifested and the sinner becomes saved. The sinner cannot and will not successfully resist the sovereign work of God to regenerate him when it is the moment of salvation that is wrought by God's power.


    However, this grace is not a forceful violation of the will of the recipient. Grace, after all, is the unmerited favor of God upon individuals, but God works upon the person through conviction, the scriptures, and the preaching of the gospel that brings the person to salvation. An illustration can be found with a light bulb. Whenever electricity is present, light is also present. But the light is there because electricity is there. It is not true that electricity (is) there because the light is there. Likewise, when regeneration is present, belief is also present. Belief is the result of regeneration. So, the grace of God upon the sinner always accomplishes what God intends it to accomplish, and the result is regeneration which in turn results in belief. In this way, it is irresistible.

    What is irresistible grace? | CARM.org

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Irresistible grace ....It means that when it comes time for a person to become saved, the saving grace of God upon them cannot be successfully resisted. It is effectual because God's grace overcomes the rebellion of the unregenerate.

    .... The sinner cannot and will not successfully resist the sovereign work of God to regenerate him when it is the moment of salvation that is wrought by God's power.

    Total baloney....but many people love eating baloney

    I myself can't stand it


  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Total baloney....but many people love eating baloney

    I myself can't stand it
    I hope you're strong in your faith TT, because it's only your sinful self that's keeping you saved.

    And I hope you don't get any old age diseases and forget and no longer believe 'cause you'll be lost.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    I hope you're strong in your faith TT, because it's only your sinful self that's keeping you saved.

    And I hope you don't get any old age diseases and forget and no longer believe 'cause you'll be lost.
    Unlike Calvinism I don't need Reformed doctrine to make me secure in salvation. Foolish nebulous 'irresistable grace' magic is meaningless hocus pocus

    I have faith in Jesus Christ the living saviour, the power of his Word and what he accomplished at the cross for my security. God honours faith in his Son.

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  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I have faith in Jesus Christ the living saviour, the power of his Word and what he accomplished at the cross for my security. God honours faith in his Son.
    Yes, but as it's your faith, and you're a sinner, you could lose it at any moment.

  10. #19
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Yes, but as it's your faith, and you're a sinner, you could lose it at any moment.
    Sad you don't know the Word....it's faith in Jesus and HE honours faith

    BTW you can't just lose faith at any moment...you need to stop brainwashing your mind with RD and believe the scriptures

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  12. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Sad you don't know the Word....it's faith in Jesus and HE honours faith
    But it's your faith in Jesus.

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