View Poll Results: Have any threads on tithing changed your beliefs?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • No change to my beliefs

    10 90.91%
  • Yes, I changed my beliefs

    1 9.09%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Tithing threads: have you changed your belief?

  1. #11
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,139
    Thanked: 675
    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    Nope. My beliefs about mandatory tithing for NT Believers has not changed since the late 90s.
    It's not mandatory... it's an honor to get to.

    Two totally different things.

    Jesus is in fact accepting the tithe so it is His will that this be done... but in the NT God never says it is "mandatory" as the NT teaches we should not give under compulsion. God wants us to want to, not be told we have to. There's great blessing in wanting to and then doing it.

    Those that study what a Blood Covenant is in depth will finally understand why Jesus is accepting the tithe and is pleased when we tithe the tithe.

    It all depends on how deep we want to go in our covenant relationship with the Father thru Jesus by the Holy Ghost. I don't see anywhere in the NT where we are told this is salvation critical.

    I just find it odd that back when I did not participate in the Covenant like this... I had many hard times financially and with my stuff breaking down or getting stolen.

    Now, it's just the opposite... but, to each his own.

  2. #12
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,271
    Thanked: 14129
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    Jesus is in fact accepting the tithe...
    Nowhere does the Bible say that.

  3. #13
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,139
    Thanked: 675
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Nowhere does the Bible say that.

    Tithing began before the law was introduced. The Law simply regulated the tithe. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law, and according to Romans 4:12 we are to walk in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham. If tithing was good for him, it should be good for us, too.

    We give tithes like Abraham gave them—not by the Law but by faith. And beside that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law, and ten percent under the Law, shouldn't we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant (Heb 7:22).

    There is a passage in Hebrews, which deals with this issue directly. It is Hebrews 7:8:

    And here men that die receive tithes; but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.

    HE here is referring to Jesus Christ...

    Melchizedek received Abraham’s tithe. The Hebrew writer shows that Melchizedek is a prefigure of Christ. We can conclude that just as Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek we give a tithe to Christ who is declared to be living.

    Some people think this is a new issue. It is as old as the second century when more and more Gentiles were being converted. The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with Matthew 23:23:

    "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

    Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

    Some argue that Jesus words are not applicable to us today, because Jesus was under the Law and spoke to those under the Law. Their theory goes something like this: Jesus was giving an instruction to the Jews so His words are not binding to us.

    The problem with this interpretation is that these teachers are bringing Christ down to the level of a Jewish prophet or Teacher of the Law. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, so this means every word that comes out of His mouth is eternal. He cannot say anything without it being “spiritual law” and everlasting.

    Jesus emphasizes this point by saying, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matt 24:35). These supposed Bible teachers are making the words of Jesus pass away—obsolete and out of date. Besides, these same teachers pick and choose which teachings of Christ in the gospels they believe is applicable to us.

    I notice that even these teachers agree that most of Christ’ teachings are for us; however, because they are predisposed against tithing, they have had to come up with an excuse for not obeying the clear word of Christ in Mathew 23:23.

    As a believer, you have to show who your Lord is! Is it the teachers who tell you tithing is not New Testament and who tell you that Jesus word on the subject is out of date; or is it Jesus who clearly told us not to neglect tithing? No modern teacher has the right to tell you to disobey Jesus instruction on tithing. Period!

    Even if the only passages in the New Testament was Jesus word, then that would be sufficient, however, I want to present other New Testament passages on the subject. Let’s look at Paul’s teaching on giving.

    Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

    Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

    Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is 2 Corinthians 9:7:

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute."

    The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

    But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. (Deut 12:5-6)

    It is quite inconsistent for people to appeal to freewill offerings yet claim that tithing has been abolished. Both tithing and freewill offerings were incorporated in the Law as the above passage shows, but they preceded the Law, thus they both should be practiced. The burden of proof is placed on those who teach that tithing has been abolished. If so, where in the New Testament does it clearly say that tithing has been abolished?

    One last thing, notice the resemblance of the language Paul uses in the first passage in Galatians and compare it with the Old Testament passage about tithing:

    Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. (Gal 6:6)

    And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the LORD your God has given to you and your household. When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deut 26:11-12)

    Galatians 6 is dealing with giving to the teacher of the gospel and he uses the same language about the Levites receiving the tithe of the people and he calls it "all good things." This is pretty good internal evidence that the early church tithed to the ministers of the gospel, although, I admit it is not explicit evidence.



    Source: http://tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Farm Truck For This Useful Post:

    Nikos (11-23-2015)

  5. #14
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    12,927
    Thanked: 7617
    Blog Entries
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    Tithing began before the law was introduced. The Law simply regulated the tithe. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law, and according to Romans 4:12 we are to walk in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham. If tithing was good for him, it should be good for us, too.

    We give tithes like Abraham gave them—not by the Law but by faith. And beside that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law, and ten percent under the Law, shouldn't we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant (Heb 7:22).

    There is a passage in Hebrews, which deals with this issue directly. It is Hebrews 7:8:

    And here men that die receive tithes; but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.

    HE here is referring to Jesus Christ...

    Melchizedek received Abraham's tithe. The Hebrew writer shows that Melchizedek is a prefigure of Christ. We can conclude that just as Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek we give a tithe to Christ who is declared to be living.

    Some people think this is a new issue. It is as old as the second century when more and more Gentiles were being converted. The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with Matthew 23:23:

    "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

    Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

    Some argue that Jesus words are not applicable to us today, because Jesus was under the Law and spoke to those under the Law. Their theory goes something like this: Jesus was giving an instruction to the Jews so His words are not binding to us.

    The problem with this interpretation is that these teachers are bringing Christ down to the level of a Jewish prophet or Teacher of the Law. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, so this means every word that comes out of His mouth is eternal. He cannot say anything without it being "spiritual law" and everlasting.

    Jesus emphasizes this point by saying, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matt 24:35). These supposed Bible teachers are making the words of Jesus pass away—obsolete and out of date. Besides, these same teachers pick and choose which teachings of Christ in the gospels they believe is applicable to us.

    I notice that even these teachers agree that most of Christ' teachings are for us; however, because they are predisposed against tithing, they have had to come up with an excuse for not obeying the clear word of Christ in Mathew 23:23.

    As a believer, you have to show who your Lord is! Is it the teachers who tell you tithing is not New Testament and who tell you that Jesus word on the subject is out of date; or is it Jesus who clearly told us not to neglect tithing? No modern teacher has the right to tell you to disobey Jesus instruction on tithing. Period!

    Even if the only passages in the New Testament was Jesus word, then that would be sufficient, however, I want to present other New Testament passages on the subject. Let's look at Paul's teaching on giving.

    Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

    Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

    Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is 2 Corinthians 9:7:

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute."

    The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

    But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. (Deut 12:5-6)

    It is quite inconsistent for people to appeal to freewill offerings yet claim that tithing has been abolished. Both tithing and freewill offerings were incorporated in the Law as the above passage shows, but they preceded the Law, thus they both should be practiced. The burden of proof is placed on those who teach that tithing has been abolished. If so, where in the New Testament does it clearly say that tithing has been abolished?

    One last thing, notice the resemblance of the language Paul uses in the first passage in Galatians and compare it with the Old Testament passage about tithing:

    Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. (Gal 6:6)

    And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the LORD your God has given to you and your household. When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deut 26:11-12)

    Galatians 6 is dealing with giving to the teacher of the gospel and he uses the same language about the Levites receiving the tithe of the people and he calls it "all good things." This is pretty good internal evidence that the early church tithed to the ministers of the gospel, although, I admit it is not explicit evidence.



    Source: http://tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm
    Excellent post!

  6. #15
    * Toxic Troll - Negative Nancy Farm Truck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,139
    Thanked: 675
    That's be Tom Brown... most of his stuff is pretty good.

    He is one of the few guy to start wearing one of those ridiculous looking religious collar thingys that I don't mind reading his stuff.

  7. #16
    Senior Member scottae316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    North of Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    172
    Thanked: 175
    Yes, my views have changed. I do not believe in a mandatory 10% tithe for today. If a thread starts on tithing (and I'm sure it will) I'll state my position.

  8. #17
    Senior Member Lively Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Thanked: 267
    I have only had my belief in the tithe for believers reinforced by these kinds of threads.


    .

  9. #18
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793

  10. #19
    Senior Member Lively Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Thanked: 267
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post

    LOLOL!

    Yep! I am now outfitted with rigid rebar up my spine! Thank you, Jesus!


    .

  11. #20
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    3,970
    Thanked: 2924
    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Truck View Post
    That's be Tom Brown... most of his stuff is pretty good.

    He is one of the few guy to start wearing one of those ridiculous looking religious collar thingys that I don't mind reading his stuff.
    Of course he's wearing one of those ridiculous collar thingys, because NT tithing was started by the Catholic church.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Nissan Versa extended warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.