Thread: Flesh, Spirit or devils?

Originally Posted by LionHeart

And what is the prescription for changing all of that ? A responsible leader who actively promotes the workings and operations of the Holy Spirit in his church while painstakingly sorting out the real from the false.He or she has been trained in the trenches knowing the Holy Spirit intimately and knowing how God moves. We have lost moves of God because they were not lead correctly and went into extremes which caused derision to come from inside the movement and then from outside the church.

In my church people used to fall under the power a lot and a lot of it was undoubtedly carnal, meaning that people were either pushed or they chose to fall down, thinking to themselves that it was the Holy Spirit but it was emotional or even based on expectations or peer pressure. Then Benny Hinn held a huge meeting that packed the 2,500 max attendence hall and people fell everywhere. The result was that an elderly lady broke her arm and there was a huge uproar. Since that meeting, practically noone has fallen under the power. I layed hands on a man a few years ago that shook under the power and had trouble standing up and had to hold on to the chair in front of him but he didn't fall down. Some time before 1998 I was in a prayer room and layed hands on a woman's head from behind who never even saw me and she instantly went out cold for minutes. Was that real rather than emotional ? Yes, I think so.

Kenneth used to say almost sarcastically that most Pentecostal Pastors would not know the Holy Ghost if he came riding in the church on a pink horse. It was to prove a point that when God is moving in a service if the leader is a not a trained interpreter of where the Holy Spirit is flowing that service will not be what God wants it to be. One time in a Four Square church the lead Pastor asked if I had anything from the Lord ? I replied I did have an interpretation for a message in tongues if someone would just give the message in tongues. They would not give it so I just prophesied the message. It seemed to me it would have had more spiritual punch to it than if it was done the way the Holy Spirit wanted. That same scenario played out again and the lady did this time give the message in tongues and I interpreted. I know that God wanted really to make that gift resident in that church and not just through me. But the leaders ,one young and one old did not realize this and I think got mad and jealous because they could not perceive the moving of the Holy Spirit as I was. Now I understood why brother Hagin said when he saw God wanted to move in certain way in a church service he did not move on that because it would have caused problems because the Pastor was not there yet in the Spirit. I more concerned with carnal jealousy and competition in a service when God moves than some flaky demonstration that can be spotted easily even by a baby Christian.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

Kenneth used to say almost sarcastically that most Pentecostal Pastors would not know the Holy Ghost if he came riding in the church on a pink horse. It was to prove a point that when God is moving in a service if the leader is a not a trained interpreter of where the Holy Spirit is flowing that service will not be what God wants it to be. One time in a Four Square church the lead Pastor asked if I had anything from the Lord ? I replied I did have an interpretation for a message in tongues if someone would just give the message in tongues. They would not give it so I just prophesied the message. It seemed to me it would have had more spiritual punch to it than if it was done the way the Holy Spirit wanted. That same scenario played out again and the lady did this time give the message in tongues and I interpreted. I know that God wanted really to make that gift resident in that church and not just through me. But the leaders ,one young and one old did not realize this and I think got mad and jealous because they could not perceive the moving of the Holy Spirit as I was. Now I understood why brother Hagin said when he saw God wanted to move in certain way in a church service he did not move on that because it would have caused problems because the Pastor was not there yet in the Spirit. I more concerned with carnal jealousy and competition in a service when God moves than some flaky demonstration that can be spotted easily even by a baby Christian.

Tongues then interpretation, I don't think I've seen that in church ever. I sometimes speak in tongues then interpret the tongues but that is in private.

But what happens when people start barking and leadership deems that it's the Holy Spirit ? Then other people start doing similar things and so on. At some point it looks like that crazy cult going berzerk again, at least to outsiders aka sinners in need of the gospel message.

Originally Posted by Colonel

Tongues then interpretation, I don't think I've seen that in church ever. I sometimes speak in tongues then interpret the tongues but that is in private.

But what happens when people start barking and leadership deems that it's the Holy Spirit ? Then other people start doing similar things and so on. At some point it looks like that crazy cult going berzerk again, at least to outsiders aka sinners in need of the gospel message.

Then maybe you have not experienced real Pentecost as yet. Tongues and interpretation to me should be operative in every full Gospel church. Why do keep throwing in someones wild nutty behavior when we are trying to balance things out with some good teachings ? The Bible answer man used to go off on these barking like dogs tangents when anyone brought up anything Pentecostal/Charismatic.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

Then maybe you have not experienced real Pentecost as yet. Tongues and interpretation to me should be operative in every full Gospel church. Why do keep throwing in someones wild nutty behavior when we are trying to balance things out with some good teachings ? The Bible answer man used to go off on these barking like dogs tangents when anyone brought up anything Pentecostal/Charismatic.

Tongues then interpretation is as Biblical as it gets, I'd like to see that more in a church setting. Someone's wild, nutty behavior isn't that interesting as long as it doesn't become institutionalized or part of the culture. Then you get "heroes of barking", "heroes of continual shaking", "heroes of headbanging" and so on. Some people will call some or all of that demonic but in my mind most of it is emotionalism or learned behavior that sometimes becomes compulsive.

Originally Posted by Colonel

Tongues then interpretation, I don't think I've seen that in church ever.

I was blessed to come up spiritually in a Church of God that the pastor operated in tongues and interpretation and prophecy regularly. That being the case, the congregation was well versed in it and many in the congregation did too. I wouldn't trade those years of the moving of the Spirit in that Pentecostal church for anything. I wish every believer could have experienced that. Like yourself, probably most today know nothing of an environment like that in church, especially Charismatics.

Originally Posted by fuego

I was blessed to come up spiritually in a Church of God that the pastor operated in tongues and interpretation and prophecy regularly. That being the case, the congregation was well versed in it and many in the congregation did too. I wouldn't trade those years of the moving of the Spirit in that Pentecostal church for anything. I wish every believer could have experienced that. Like yourself, probably most today know nothing of an environment like that in church, especially Charismatics.

When we were in the AG when I was a young teen, tongues and interpretation was manifested in every service. I do however understand what Colonel is saying. I believe there is a great deal of flesh manifested in the Charismatic world which could be helped by some much needed teaching. They teach how to prophesy and how to heal, just sayin'.

Originally Posted by fuego

I was blessed to come up spiritually in a Church of God that the pastor operated in tongues and interpretation and prophecy regularly. That being the case, the congregation was well versed in it and many in the congregation did too. I wouldn't trade those years of the moving of the Spirit in that Pentecostal church for anything. I wish every believer could have experienced that. Like yourself, probably most today know nothing of an environment like that in church, especially Charismatics.

There was a small clash in one meeting we had when a traditional Pentecostal showed up and started speaking in tongues in the middle of everything. Before the actual sermon started but still in the middle of everything. The guy on the mic interrupted him and explained to the congregation that "our brother here is speaking in tongues" or something like that then he proceeded to talk about what he was originally going to talk about. Was that a real message in tongues ? I don't think it was, it had a strange mysterious feel or spirit to it - not a demonic one but rather a religious one. My impression was that the guy was trying to show off in place that he didn't ordinarily frequent.

Originally Posted by Colonel

There was a small clash in one meeting we had when a traditional Pentecostal showed up and started speaking in tongues in the middle of everything. Before the actual sermon started but still in the middle of everything. The guy on the mic interrupted him and explained to the congregation that "our brother here is speaking in tongues" or something like that then he proceeded to talk about what he was originally going to talk about. Was that a real message in tongues ? I don't think it was, it had a strange mysterious feel or spirit to it - not a demonic one but rather a religious one. My impression was that the guy was trying to show off in place that he didn't ordinarily frequent.

A message in tongues has a definite weight of Heaven on it that regular speaking in tongues does not. One time the Lord told me on Saturday night that I would be giving an interpretation of a message in tongues in the service the next day.He gave me some of the interpretation right then. Not all of it but some. The service came and the tongues came forth but before I could give the interpretation someone gave something that just seemed to fall flat.The Pastor got up and started his sermon which was exactly what the interpretation was about. It would have probably encouraged the Pastor that God was confirming His Word through supernatural means. I told the Lord I was sorry I hesitated and could He please have the next person giving a message sit close enough to me so I could hear when they stopped ?The next time there was a sweet very soft spoken lady sitting in my row who gave a message in tongues. As soon as she stopped I gave the interpretation. I could literally see in the Spirit a stream of Golden Glory leaving my mouth and going throughout the room. The Pastor also sensed the weight of Glory come into the room and very appropriately gave an altar call for salvation.He found me after the service and thanked me for obeying God.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

A message in tongues has a definite weight of Heaven on it that regular speaking in tongues does not. One time the Lord told me on Saturday night that I would be giving an interpretation of a message in tongues in the service the next day.He gave me some of the interpretation right then. Not all of it but some. The service came and the tongues came forth but before I could give the interpretation someone gave something that just seemed to fall flat.The Pastor got up and started his sermon which was exactly what the interpretation was about. It would have probably encouraged the Pastor that God was confirming His Word through supernatural means. I told the Lord I was sorry I hesitated and could He please have the next person giving a message sit close enough to me so I could hear when they stopped ?The next time there was a sweet very soft spoken lady sitting in my row who gave a message in tongues. As soon as she stopped I gave the interpretation. I could literally see in the Spirit a stream of Golden Glory leaving my mouth and going throughout the room. The Pastor also sensed the weight of Glory come into the room and very appropriately gave an altar call for salvation.He found me after the service and thanked me for obeying God.

The wrong person gives "the interpretation", interesting.