Thread: Revisit - Drunk in the Spirit Phenomenon

Originally Posted by FireBrand

I find the having to defend shaking, laughing, being bent over (called bowing by old timers), staggering, etc to be useless since most are in defense of mocking at the hands of bitter cessationists.

Yet, the one with an experience is never at the mercy of one with the argument.

I believe all of that which you specifically mentioned above have been manifestations of the Spirit and they occurred before Azusa street too. I'm not so sure about the "barking" and similar. Often such phenomena get started in the Spirit and then continue in the flesh after a while. Especially if people start seeing them as outward signs of spirituality then they tend to emulate them in the flesh, whether consciously or subconsciously. Or they may have experienced such things at one time and then when the Spirit is no longer moving in that specific way they want it to continue anyway and they end up working it up according to the flesh. Some people end up shaking uncontrollably while speaking from a pulpit for instance and that is usually a sign that they are continuing in the flesh.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I believe all of that which you specifically mentioned above have been manifestations of the Spirit and they occurred before Azusa street too. I'm not so sure about the "barking" and similar. Often such phenomena get started in the Spirit and then continue in the flesh after a while. Especially if people start seeing them as outward signs of spirituality then they tend to emulate them in the flesh, whether consciously or subconsciously. Or they may have experienced such things at one time and then when the Spirit is no longer moving in that specific way they want it to continue anyway and they end up working it up according to the flesh. Some people end up shaking uncontrollably while speaking from a pulpit for instance and that is usually a sign that they are continuing in the flesh.

There was a revivalist/preacher from one of the Great Awakenings that said, and I paraphrase, “Lord, please send a revival without the flesh. If that isnt possible, send revival anyway”. When the Holy Spirit ignites an earthly, fleshly, marginal believer, there is a mighty collision. Jonathan Edwards observed the ebbing away of that powerful anointing in townsfolk to the point Edwards found it necessary to help those with “the melancholies”. Having been in this earthly predicament of being under a heavy glory realm experience and the awkwardness of learning how to function around those that have no clue of where you have been, yeah that’s tough. I call it “re-entry into earth’s atmosphere”.

Having said this, I have been under a pastor (his youth pastor) in terrible sin, trying to deal with what Edwards did in what I called “Moses Veil” where people saw him with a fading glory and did not deal with that humbly on a human level. Let’s admit, following the tough act of following Rodney H-B’s 3 week revival at our little country church is a tough act to follow. Instead of teaching his people through this, he just carried on in the flesh as if the glory wasnt fading. The church became incredibly unstable until 5 months later my wife and I picked up everything and vacated the place quickly.

Once you have tasted of that heavenly realm, you are wrecked for the things of this earth. Sometings the re-entry is ridiculously difficult to the point you dont want to move on from it. This is where you want to sing the same songs thinking it to be the cause of the Anointing to appear. Pentecost can get terribly religious sometimes.

Did you know that Jonathan Edwards termed himself a Cessationist in his writings ?

Originally Posted by Colonel

Did you know that Jonathan Edwards termed himself a Cessationist in his writings ?

Yes, and that’s what made his experiences so vivid. Once you have the experience, your cessationism just fell flat out dead on the floor.

For the cessationist, it is far easier to say “it” isnt for today than it is to explain why you dont have it.

Originally Posted by FireBrand

Yes, and that’s what made his experiences so vivid. Once you have the experience, your cessationism just fell flat out dead on the floor.

For the cessationist, it is far easier to say “it” isnt for today than it is to explain why you dont have it.

I don't understand. When or where did Jonathan Edwards abandon cessationism ? People getting emotional in his meetings isn't quite the same as miracles happening.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I don't understand. When or where did Jonathan Edwards abandon cessationism ? People getting emotional in his meetings isn't quite the same as miracles happening.

I’m not sure if he alluded to going back on cessationism in his writings but he didnt shy away from what he saw take place. I’m trying to recall what book helped me understand his observations. It’s been 22 years since reading it.

Originally Posted by FireBrand

I’m not sure if he alluded to going back on cessationism in his writings but he didnt shy away from what he saw take place. I’m trying to recall what book helped me understand his observations. It’s been 22 years since reading it.

If he was in fact a Cessationist throughout, which doesn't surprise me since he was a Calvinist, then the phenomena in his meetings didn't come about because of an anointing of the Holy Spirit. Could it be that the phenomena were emotional rather than spiritual and revolved around his ability to work up a religious frenzy in his audiences ? His angle seems to have revolved around condemnation more than anything. This is the man who wrote "sinners in the hands of an angry God"

Originally Posted by Colonel

If he was in fact a Cessationist throughout, which doesn't surprise me since he was a Calvinist, then the phenomena in his meetings didn't come about because of an anointing of the Holy Spirit. Could it be that the phenomena were emotional rather than spiritual and revolved around his ability to work up a religious frenzy in his audiences ? His angle seems to have revolved around condemnation more than anything. This is the man who wrote "sinners in the hands of an angry God"

His “angry God” message was the first outbreak of revival wasnt it? I recall reading where he read it word for word in a dull monotone voice while people screamed and crawled under the pews to reach the altar.

Originally Posted by FireBrand

His “angry God” message was the first outbreak of revival wasnt it? I recall reading where he read it word for word in a dull monotone voice while people screamed and crawled under the pews to reach the altar.

I don't remember the history of it but it was much easier for a preacher to invoke religious emotions back then. Christianity and the Bible were generally held in esteem, including themes like hell and eternal judgment. It's difficult to tell based on accounts of people's reactions if the Holy Spirit was involved or just religious frenzy. I have no doubt that he was an effective preacher but are there any concrete miracles attributed to the ministry of Jonathan Edwards ?

Originally Posted by Colonel

I don't remember the history of it but it was much easier for a preacher to invoke religious emotions back then. Christianity and the Bible were generally held in esteem, including themes like hell and eternal judgment. It's difficult to tell based on accounts of people's reactions if the Holy Spirit was involved or just religious frenzy. I have no doubt that he was an effective preacher but are there any concrete miracles attributed to the ministry of Jonathan Edwards ?

Here is a link to an article in an Assemblies of God ministers publication highlighting the life and ministry of Jonathan Edwards:
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/2002..._johnathan.cfm

I dont recall healing miracles becoming evident until the 1890’s when the Pentecostal Revival began to build and had it’s peak in the likes of William Seymour of Azusa St fame and the dynamic Maria Woodworth-Etter up until 1920 here in the USA. Healings, signs and wonders as many as they were, seemed eclipsed by the “second blessing” and speaking in tongues. This split many churches nationwide, leaving those so blessed with their fresh encounter, had no where to worship except among themselves. Out of this need was birthed the Assemblies of God, a missionary movement that continues today with missions at the heart.