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Thread: Flesh, Spirit or devils?

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Flesh, Spirit or devils?

    Some may not want to watch this. Good idea to read the text before watching the video.


    PLEASE READ THIS TEXT BEFORE SEEING THE VIDEO!

    It's time to do this public statement on behalf of 'The Last Reformation' to address a growing problem when it comes to some demonic and fleshly manifestations we are seeing in the church.

    In many places, wrong spirits have crept into the church and shown themselves through weird manifestations and shaking. Many people today think this is the Holy Spirit manifesting, yet through the years we've prayed for many people who have had these manifestations, and they have experienced a freedom from them through deliverance. We've also noticed that many of these wrong spirits, sadly enough, have been received during church meetings.

    In this video, we mention that it is right now not important for us to address names of ministries or churches where we see this. We focus, rather, on what the problems are. We hope that by doing this, many out there will start recognizing all this, and will rise up against it.

    We don't say any of this with a Pharisaical or anti-manifestation attitude. You who know us, know that we believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, as you see in our movies: The Last Reformation Movies .
    So we'd like to make clear that we are for the work of the Holy Spirit, and we fully believe in a miracle-working God, and that people can experience God! We often see God doing amazing things!

    However, the Bible is very clear that we should learn to discern what is from God and what it not. The Bible is also very clear that we are called to cast out demons when that is needed.

    During the many deliverances and talks we've had with people about this problem, we became convinced that we're dealing with manifestations of wrong spirits, or fleshly manifestations, not manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Some people we've talked with about this have needed a deliverance to be free from this. Others have, by themselves, stopped doing those weird manifestations and shaking, after knowing that this is not from God. In these cases, they could easily stop, themselves, because it was only fleshly manifestations. Yes, we've seen many who have experienced freedom just by understanding this is not from God and that they don't need to do like the others are doing in order to be accepted as holy or close to God.

    In recent weeks, we've met more who have had a need for this teaching, or for deliverance from these wrong spirits, and we now feel strongly that it's time to go public with it by making this video.

    We encourage you to see the whole video, and we hope that you will feel our heart in it. I didn't find it easy to make this video, knowing that it might not be well received by some of you. However, we can't keep quiet about it anymore.

    Let's do as the Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "Test everything and hold on to what is good." Let's "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God" (1 John 4.1).

    Let's see a church rise up that wants to have everything that is from God, but nothing to do with what's not from Him.

    In a short time, I will do a follow-up video where I will talk more about discerning of spirits, and answer any questions that come up because of this video.

    On behalf of The Last Reformation,

    Torben Søndergaard





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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Haven't watched it yet, but somebody just told me a few days ago that Torben was kind of on the same wavelength with the 'Kundalini' spirit thing as Andrew Strom (from listening to him I believe), who I have a lot of problems with. Strom is very quick to label shaking, etc, as from the devil. He criticized the Brownsville revival, etc, and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I hope Torben isn't full in on this.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Haven't watched it yet, but somebody just told me a few days ago that Torben was kind of on the same wavelength with the 'Kundalini' spirit thing as Andrew Strom (from listening to him I believe), who I have a lot of problems with. Strom is very quick to label shaking, etc, as from the devil. He criticized the Brownsville revival, etc, and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I hope Torben isn't full in on this.
    Nope, no "Kundalini spirit" anti-charismaticism. He warns against soulish manifestations as well as demonic ones. And in general phenomena that don't change people inwardly.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    I have seen manifestations of demonized folks who could not sit still in a service. They became restless and would walk in and out of the sanctuary. If I had understood things that I have now learned I would have dealt with them swiftly as such.

    You never know how the flesh is going to react when the Spirit of God moves, and you can pretty much count on the demon spirits to react in some form or fashion.

    I have seen demonized people fall to the floor while doing deliverance, as if they were slain in the Spirit. This is another common trick of the enemy to stop the eviction process. Oh how we need to ask the Holy Spirit to operate the gift of Discerning of spirits in us these days!



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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Haven't watched it yet, but somebody just told me a few days ago that Torben was kind of on the same wavelength with the 'Kundalini' spirit thing as Andrew Strom (from listening to him I believe), who I have a lot of problems with. Strom is very quick to label shaking, etc, as from the devil. He criticized the Brownsville revival, etc, and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I hope Torben isn't full in on this.
    He's not. You should watch the video.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Torben said early in the ministry he thought such manifestations of body shaking and uncontrollable rapid movements of the body was a move of the Holy Spirit.
    Since then in those early days, Torben has come to the conclusion that many of those manifestations are not of the Holy Spirit.
    Many in this forum understand that the "discerning of spirits" is supernatural insight into the spirit realm.
    This gift will disclose the presence and operation of evil spirits.

    Is any of the head and body shaking in this video clip a move of the Holy Spirit, or a display of the flesh and emotions?
    Or may it be a manifestation of a "wrong spirit," or possible a "evil spirit?"

    Torben did mention that one of the fruit of the Spirit is self control.
    The people in the clip have lost self control of their body, and are unable to control their fits of uncontrollable shaking.

    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I think Torben's interpretation of the "self control" scripture is off. There are examples of people becoming besides themselves when the Holy Spirit came upon them in the old testament, for instance Saul who prophecied instead of doing what he intended to do. Then we have :

    2 Cor 5:13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you.

    The fruit of the Spirit called "self control" has to do with being able to avoid doing or saying bad things, it doesn't mean that one is in control of all things at all times.

    Regarding Smitty's video, I think most of it is soulish manifestations. People think that it's the Holy Spirit but they are fooling themselves and one reason why they are fooling themselves might be that doing that makes them feel more spiritual and others who are like minded think they are too. So the spirit they are possessed by is "me" rather than an actual demon.

    With some people it might become a subconscious habit, meaning that when they think that the Holy Spirit is upon them then they automatically start doing that and they might have a hard time quitting even if they want to. It's a learned behavior at any rate, they do what they have seen others do before them.

    If that "type" has been showing up at Torben's various kickstart meetings and they start spreading their "disease" because people buy it as a sign of spirituality then I understand why he chooses to dismiss the phenomenon, even if or when it isn't demonic but merely carnal.

    As he mentions himself, the disciples who received the Spirit on Pentecost were accused of being drunk, not just of speaking in foreign languages, so they had to have been a bit "besides themselves".

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    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Torben said early in the ministry he thought such manifestations of body shaking and uncontrollable rapid movements of the body was a move of the Holy Spirit.
    Since then in those early days, Torben has come to the conclusion that many of those manifestations are not of the Holy Spirit.
    Many in this forum understand that the "discerning of spirits" is supernatural insight into the spirit realm.
    This gift will disclose the presence and operation of evil spirits.

    Is any of the head and body shaking in this video clip a move of the Holy Spirit, or a display of the flesh and emotions?
    Or may it be a manifestation of a "wrong spirit," or possible a "evil spirit?"

    Torben did mention that one of the fruit of the Spirit is self control.
    The people in the clip have lost self control of their body, and are unable to control their fits of uncontrollable shaking.
    I'm quite familiar with Stacey Campbell and she's absolutely solid. She's a scholar and deeply in love with the Lord. I've sat in her (and her husband, Wes) teaching and ministry many times and her reverence for God is many levels above most people.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    I'm quite familiar with Stacey Campbell and she's absolutely solid. She's a scholar and deeply in love with the Lord. I've sat in her (and her husband, Wes) teaching and ministry many times and her reverence for God is many levels above most people.
    Never heard of Stacey Campbell before. I posted the clip in response to the OP.
    But I trust your judgment Sharie. Thank you for sharing.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Never heard of Stacey Campbell before. I posted the clip in response to the OP.
    But I trust your judgment Sharie. Thank you for sharing.
    You're welcome. Wes and Stacey actually come from a very staunch cessationist church background and through hunger for more of God, got filled with the Holy Spirit. They describe her prophetic gift as having to walk through the fire as there weren't many people who were manifesting under the power of the Holy Spirit the way she was, and still does.

    Wes and Stacey founded a Vineyard Church in Kelowna BC but left the denomination when Vineyard disowned the Toronto Airport Revival. They still have that church, although I think they're too busy with other things to actually be full time pastors. They both sit on the Canadian Apostolic Counsel and are highly respected in apostolic, prophetic and revival churches and movements.

    Heresy hunters love to focus on her and tear her down.

    Stacey Campbell News - Home | Facebook
    Last edited by A.J.; 10-27-2019 at 03:07 PM. Reason: spelling

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