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Thread: Revisit - Drunk in the Spirit Phenomenon

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    From reading history there was a holiness revival in America in the 1700 and 1800's so there were many manifestations of deep repentance and preaching on hell.

    Many Calvinist preachers were in favour of manifestations that saw people under the power of the Holy Spirit if it lead to repentance

  2. #22
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post

    Since there is no mention of any drunken behavior I think it's going too far when people interpret it to mean that they behaved drunkenly. That's a form of eisegesis, taking one's Charismatic experiences and simply reading them into the passage.
    I disagree. If you think someone is drunk it's because they are exhibiting drunken behavior. Otherwise there is nothing to give evidence they are drunk. And it has nothing to do with Charismatic experiences at all. I'm actually leaving any Charismatic experience out of it and interpreting it as if I were reading a newspaper. In order to think someone is drunk they have to be acting drunk. Not speaking languages they don't know. That isn't an evidence of being drunk the way any normal person would define drunkedness.

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  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    Here is a link to an article in an Assemblies of God ministers publication highlighting the life and ministry of Jonathan Edwards:
    http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/2002..._johnathan.cfm

    I dont recall healing miracles becoming evident until the 1890’s when the Pentecostal Revival began to build and had it’s peak in the likes of William Seymour of Azusa St fame and the dynamic Maria Woodworth-Etter up until 1920 here in the USA. Healings, signs and wonders as many as they were, seemed eclipsed by the “second blessing” and speaking in tongues. This split many churches nationwide, leaving those so blessed with their fresh encounter, had no where to worship except among themselves. Out of this need was birthed the Assemblies of God, a missionary movement that continues today with missions at the heart.
    I like this part in the link:
    Sometimes, during sermons, they screamed and dropped unconscious to the floor. Edwards’ own wife sat trance-like in a corner of their living room for long periods, unable to move, utterly overwhelmed by God’s love.

    Edwards was not the type to drum up hype, so these happenings show a "spontaneity" to the unusual manifestations.

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  6. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    I like this part in the link:
    Sometimes, during sermons, they screamed and dropped unconscious to the floor. Edwards’ own wife sat trance-like in a corner of their living room for long periods, unable to move, utterly overwhelmed by God’s love.

    Edwards was not the type to drum up hype, so these happenings show a "spontaneity" to the unusual manifestations.
    That story of his wife has always intrigued me. Their lives would never be the same.

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  8. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    From reading history there was a holiness revival in America in the 1700 and 1800's so there were many manifestations of deep repentance and preaching on hell.

    Many Calvinist preachers were in favour of manifestations that saw people under the power of the Holy Spirit if it lead to repentance
    I am most impressed by the circuit rider Peter Cartwright. I’d read a book on his life and ministry as he rode between towns in the frontier lands of early America. Talk about manifestations, signs and wonders. Wow.

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  10. #26
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Excerpt from Finney's Memoirs. I didn't post it all due to the length. But these paragraphs are the gist of the story. Well worth the read.
    _____________

    When I arrived at the appointed hour I found the schoolhouse full, and I could only get a standing place near the door, which stood open--and the windows were all open. I read a hymn--and I cannot call it singing, for they seemed never to have had any church music in that place. However, they pretended to sing. But it amounted to about this: each one bawled in his own way. My ears had been cultivated by teaching church music; and their horrible discord distressed me so much that at first I thought I must go out. I finally put both hands over my ears and held them with the full strength of my arms. But this did not shut out the discords. I held my head down over my knees, with my hands on my ears, and shook my head, and tried as far as possible to get rid of the horrible discords that seemed almost to make me mad. I stood it, however, until they were through; and then I cast myself down on my knees almost in a state of desperation, and began to pray. The Lord opened the windows of heaven and the Spirit of prayer was poured out, and I let my whole heart out in prayer.

    I had taken no thought with regard to a text upon which to preach, but waited to see the congregation, as I was in the habit of doing in those days, before I selected a text. As soon as I had done praying, I arose from my knees and said: "Up, get ye out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city." I said I did not recollect where that text was, but I told them very nearly where they would find it, and then went on to explain it. I said that there was such a man as Abraham, and also who he was; and that there was such a man as Lot, and who he was; their relations to each other; their separating from each other on account of differences between their herdsmen; and that Abraham took the hill country, and Lot settled in the vale of Sodom. I then told them how exceedingly wicked Sodom became, and what abominable practices they fell into. I told them that the Lord decided to destroy Sodom, and visited Abraham and informed him what He was about to do. That Abraham prayed to the Lord to spare Sodom if He found so many righteous there, and the Lord promised to do so for their sakes. That then Abraham besought Him to save it for a certain less number, and the Lord said He would spare it for their sakes. That he kept on reducing the number until he reduced the number of righteous persons to ten; and God promised him that if He found ten righteous persons in the city, He would spare it. Abraham made no farther request, and Jehovah left him. But it was found that there was but one righteous person there, and that was Lot, Abraham's nephew. "And the men said to Lot, Hast thou here any besides? Son-in-law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place; for we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. And Lot went out and spake unto his sons-in-law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place, for the Lord will destroy the city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons-in-law" Gen. 19:12--I4.

    While I was relating these facts I observed the people looked as if they were angry. Many of the men were in their shirt sleeves; and they looked at each other and at me, as if they were ready to pitch into me and chastise me for something on the spot. I saw their strange and unaccountable looks, and could not understand what I was saying that had offended them. However, it seemed to me that their anger arose higher and higher as I continued the narrative. As soon as I had finished the narrative I turned upon them and said, that I understood that they had never had a religious meeting in that place; and that therefore I had a right to take it for granted, and was compelled to take it for granted, that they were an ungodly people. I pressed that home upon them with more and more energy, with my heart full to bursting.

    I had not spoken to them in this strain of direct application, I should think more than a quarter of an hour, when all at once an awful solemnity seemed to settle down upon them, and a something flashed over the congregation--a kind of shimmering, as if there was some agitation in the atmosphere itself. The congregation began to fall from their seats; and they fell in every direction, and cried for mercy. If I had had a sword in each hand, I could not have cut them off their seats as fast as they fell. Indeed nearly the whole congregation were either on their knees or prostrate, I should think, in less than two minutes from this first shock that fell upon them. Everyone prayed for himself, who was able to speak at all. I, of course was obliged to stop preaching, for they no longer paid any attention. I saw the old man who had invited me there to preach sitting about in the middle of the house, and looking around with utter amazement. I raised my voice almost to a scream to make him hear, and pointing to him said, "Can't you pray?" He instantly fell upon his knees, and with a stentorian voice poured himself out to God, but he did not at all get the attention of the people. I then spake as loud as I could, and tried to make them attend to me. I said to them, "You are not in hell yet; and now let me direct you to Christ." For a few moments I tried to hold forth the Gospel to them, but scarcely any of them paid any attention. My heart was so overflowing with joy at such a scene that I could hardly contain myself. A little way from where I stood was an open fireplace.

    I recollect very well that my joy was so great, that I could not help laughing in a most spasmodic manner. I knelt down and stuck my head into that fireplace, and hung my pocket handkerchief over my head, lest they should see me laugh; for I was aware that they would not understand that it was irrepressible, holy joy that made me laugh. It was with much difficulty that I refrained from shouting, and giving glory to God.

    As soon as I could sufficiently control my feelings I turned to a young man who was close to me, and was engaged in praying for himself, laid my hand on his shoulder, thus getting his attention, and preached in his ear Jesus. As soon as I got his attention to the cross of Christ he believed, was calm and quiet for a minute or two, and then broke out in praying for the others. I then turned to another and took the same course with him, with the same result--and then another, and another. In this way I kept on until I found the time had arrived when I must leave them, and go and fulfil an appointment in the village. I then told them so. I asked the old man who had invited me there to remain and take charge of the meeting while I went to another place. He did so. But there was too much interest, and too many wounded souls, to dismiss the meeting; and so it was held all night. In the morning there were still those there that could not get away, and they were carried to a private house in the neighborhood to make room for the school. In the afternoon they sent for me to come down there, as they could not yet break up the meeting.

    https://www.gospeltruth.net/memoirsr.../memrest08.htm

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  12. #27
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I disagree. If you think someone is drunk it's because they are exhibiting drunken behavior. Otherwise there is nothing to give evidence they are drunk. And it has nothing to do with Charismatic experiences at all. I'm actually leaving any Charismatic experience out of it and interpreting it as if I were reading a newspaper. In order to think someone is drunk they have to be acting drunk. Not speaking languages they don't know. That isn't an evidence of being drunk the way any normal person would define drunkedness.
    Think about the details in the passage for a while. First there is a mighty rushing wind that attracts the crowds. The mockers obviously had no inclination to believe that the sound was made by the power of God. The only alternative was that the 120 in the upper room had somehow made the sound themselves, a sign of some form of revelry going on. The disciples themselves all experienced the audible sound plus visible tongues of fire appearing over their heads plus the entirely new experience of speaking in languages that some of the other disciples present would understand as they listened to them. All this had to produce an internal commotion that looked like a form of revelry to the onlookers but not necessarily something that at all resembled being drunk in the Spirit as we know that from Charismatic meetings where people are filled up by the Spirit and have problems behaving entirely normally yet without having experienced anything as concretely supernatural as what the disciples in the upper room were experiencing.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    If Finney preached like that in most churches he would get stoned

  14. #29
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Believers can get filled with the Spirit, speak in tongues and also display drunk symptoms all at the same time

  15. #30
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    If Finney preached like that in most churches he would get stoned
    He certainly would today for sure. And that's why you never see God move like He did in the example above.

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