A big name minister who does not live opulently

[Colonel]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertl.../#79db900a4dbf

What do you think ? Is it commendable ? In line with Biblical principles, perhaps the teachings of Jesus ? Is it too extreme ? Does it further the kingdom of God ?

[Colonel]

Rick Warren may be an Evangelical rather than a Pentecostal but he is positive to Charismaticism :

http://www.patheos.com/resources/add...sby-11-08-2011

[GodismyJudge]

Rick Warren aside (and the use of the word "opulent" - as if that is somehow a bad thing)

It seems as if the Apostle Paul believed in the validity of the 112th Psalm... he preached from it to the Corinthians - while they were still experiencing a measure of poverty or lack!

II Corinthians 9:8-12
(8) And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
(9) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
(10) Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
(11) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
(12) For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;


Psalms 112:1-10
(1) Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
(2) His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.
(3) Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
(4) Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness: he is gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous.
(5) A good man sheweth favour, and lendeth: he will guide his affairs with discretion.
(6) Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.
(7) He shall not be afraid of evil tidings: his heart is fixed, trusting in the LORD.
(8) His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire upon his enemies.
(9) He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.
(10) The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

So it puzzles a bit me when some Christians are among the ones who seem to be grieved and gnashing their teeth over a righteous man having and using wealth to glorify God,

(Not really sure why you seem to have a "bee in your bonnet" about this.)


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[Colonel]

My use of the word "opulent" wasn't meant to be negative. To me it's a neutral term. I'm not entirely sure what it means to the native English speakers but it's good to see that you agree with me.

[Colonel]

Rick Warren aside (and the use of the word "opulent" - as if that is somehow a bad thing)

It seems as if the Apostle Paul believed in the validity of the 112th Psalm... he preached from it to the Corinthians - while they were still experiencing a measure of poverty or lack!

II Corinthians 9:8-12
(8) And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
(9) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
(10) Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
(11) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
(12) For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;


Psalms 112:1-10
(1) Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
(2) His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.
(3) Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
(4) Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness: he is gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous.
(5) A good man sheweth favour, and lendeth: he will guide his affairs with discretion.
(6) Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.
(7) He shall not be afraid of evil tidings: his heart is fixed, trusting in the LORD.
(8) His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire upon his enemies.
(9) He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.
(10) The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

So it puzzles a bit me when some Christians are among the ones who seem to be grieved and gnashing their teeth over a righteous man having and using wealth to glorify God,

(Not really sure why you seem to have a "bee in your bonnet" about this.)

Godismyjudge, I didn't start the thread about Copeland's jet, whether here or on facebook or on Wheeze's page. You're welcome to go through all the threads I've started on this forum and then tell me how many you can find that have a similar topic.

Back to the topic. How does any of that differ from the life of Rick Warren as described at the link ?

[GodismyJudge]

Godismyjudge, I didn't start the thread about Copeland's jet, whether here or on facebook or on Wheeze's page. You're welcome to go through all the threads I've started on this forum and then tell me how many you can find that have a similar topic.

Back to the topic. How does any of that differ from the life of Rick Warren as described at the link ?

Nice dodge.



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[Colonel]

Nice dodge.
.

It's not a dodge. It's a totally serious question. He has a lot of income due to his book sales and he practices giving away 90% of it. How does the fact that he spends relatively little of it on himself make his life differ from what you described ?

[GodismyJudge]

It's not a dodge. It's a totally serious question. He has a lot of income due to his book sales and he practices giving away 90% of it. How does the fact that he spends relatively little of it on himself make his life differ from what you described ?

Implicit in your questionings, is the fact that you think that KC is not being Scriptural in areas of his personal life or ministry, or how he handles himself or his ministry before the world.

Otherwise you would have dropped it long ago.

Hence the "bee in your bonnet" about this issue.

(It's almost like some sort of "christian socialism" mindset has taken over some people's thinking when it comes to handling money in the Kingdom of God.)

It's like Ananias and Sapphira - it was up to them - it wasn't the money, it was the fact they lied abut it.

Who cares about how certain ministers deal with wealth?

What they do with those 1, 5 or 10 "talents" is their business.

According to Jesus, it's those who use what they have been entrusted with the most wisely that will bring increase to the Master and receive His praise.

How can you possibly judge that?

[Colonel]

Implicit in your questionings, is the fact that you think that KC is not being Scriptural in areas of his personal life or ministry, or how he handles himself or his ministry before the world.

@@@Not really. I might think that about someone like Creflo Dollar but in Copeland's case I merely find his way of doing things questionable.

Otherwise you would have dropped it long ago.

@@@This thread is not about discussing Copeland, it's about Rick Warren who is an example of the opposite. For all you know I might find Warren's approach to be too extreme. Too religious, too self righteous, too pious. Maybe.

Hence the "bee in your bonnet" about this issue.

(It's almost like some sort of "christian socialism" mindset has taken over some people's thinking when it comes to handling money in the Kingdom of God.)

@@@That could be the case with Rick Warren.

It's like Ananias and Sapphira - it was up to them - it wasn't the money, it was the fact they lied about it.

Who cares about how certain ministers deal with wealth?

@@@It's a discussion centered on scriptural principles. In world terms all of us here are extremely wealthy and the same principles might touch on how we go about our personal lives too.

What they do with those 1, 5 or 10 "talents" is their business.

@@@But what "one" should do with those 1,5 or 10 talents (including money) is a scriptural discussion. Rick Warren may serve as a good example or maybe as a bad example of that.

According to Jesus, it's those who use what they have been entrusted with the most wisely that will bring increase to the Master and receive His praise.

@@@But what exactly does that imply ?

How can you possibly judge that?

.

[fuego]

One has to remember about Warren, and this is isn't criticism, just an observation, that he gave up his salary when The Purpose Driven Life became so huge. It's estimated he made over 100 million dollars from that book. Joel Osteen doesn't take a salary due to the same reason, success of his books.