Is Speaking in Tongues of the Devil?

[Jonathan david]

That is usually the reaction I get from some when I teach on the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I call for those who want to receive and some will say, "I already have the Spirit." For some, no matter how much you emphasize the fact that the Baptism is a subsequent experience, it doesn't seem to register in their minds.

There are 3 main groups to consider: 1-tongue-talkers, 2-anti-tongue-talkers and the 3-"open but cautious" seeker. It's this 3rd group that headway can be made to be open and willing to search out the Scriptures to explore tongues in an unbiased way.

[Ezekiel 33]

That is usually the reaction I get from some when I teach on the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I call for those who want to receive and some will say, "I already have the Spirit." For some, no matter how much you emphasize the fact that the Baptism is a subsequent experience, it doesn't seem to register in their minds.

This is where I take them to Acts chapter 8. You can clearly see that folks were saved and baptized in water, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. This passage shows that they are two separate experiences. Acts 19 also shows that it was expected that one would have this second experience when they were saved. Paul was perplexed that they hadn't even heard that there was a Holy Spirit!

These are all strongholds that we have to tear down when ministering the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God has all the Truth we need to prove the case.

[victoryword]

There are 3 main groups to consider: 1-tongue-talkers, 2-anti-tongue-talkers and the 3-"open but cautious" seeker. It's this 3rd group that headway can be made to be open and willing to search out the Scriptures to explore tongues in an unbiased way.

Most of the "open but cautious" stuff I have read so far leans more towards cessationism with a twist of "maybe, if the moon turns polka dotted and the cow jumps over it, and I see a dish running away with a spoon then I might accept that God does miracles today".

[victoryword]

This is where I take them to Acts chapter 8. You can clearly see that folks were saved and baptized in water, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. This passage shows that they are two separate experiences. Acts 19 also shows that it was expected that one would have this second experience when they were saved. Paul was perplexed that they hadn't even heard that there was a Holy Spirit!

These are all strongholds that we have to tear down when ministering the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God has all the Truth we need to prove the case.

I do use all those passages but as you said, some people have strongholds that they refuse to get rid of.

[fuego]

This is where I take them to Acts chapter 8. You can clearly see that folks were saved and baptized in water, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. This passage shows that they are two separate experiences. Acts 19 also shows that it was expected that one would have this second experience when they were saved. Paul was perplexed that they hadn't even heard that there was a Holy Spirit!

These are all strongholds that we have to tear down when ministering the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God has all the Truth we need to prove the case.

I do use all those passages but as you said, some people have strongholds that they refuse to get rid of.

Not only Acts 8, but if you need to get a little more thorough, go into other scriptures like "We are all baptized into one body by the Spirit" and explaining that is a baptism into the body of Christ and not the baptism in the Holy Spirit itself (people mention that scripture and others as a part of their confusion of the baptism in the Holy Spirit being a separate experience). So I like to explain those scriptures also.

Also Acts 19 with Paul and the men at Ephesus. "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed", showing that Paul believed one could be a believer and not 'have received' the Holy Spirit.

The more 'evidence' you can present the better. If I think of any more I will post them.

[victoryword]

Just for the record, here is a copy of a seminar notes that I did for a church last year. This is what I usually present to my congregations and others that I am invited to when ministering on this subject:

http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org...es_seminar.pdf

[Ezekiel 33]

I do have one small issue with your notes bro. In Seminar 3, 1a- "The devil cannot understand tongues."

I have not found any scriptures to support this doctrine. I have heard it many times, but don't know where they get their info from. satan is a fallen angel, so I am sure that he understands the tongues of angels. And being that angels minister around the world, I am sure that they have the capability to speak every tongue of man also.

The only way that he could not understand would be if the Holy Spirit was using new heavenly languages that he is not privy to. However, there is no scriptural support of that theory. And besides, who cares if he understands your prayers. They should make him tremble because even he understands that there is one God.

One saint who understands who they are in Christ should make him fear everytime they speak to their heavenly Father. He knows that he is a defeated foe.

This is not a major doctrinal item, but I believe that we should stick to the plain/clear teachings of the Word in order to support any NT doctrine.

[victoryword]

I do have one small issue with your notes bro. In Seminar 3, 1a- "The devil cannot understand tongues."

I have not found any scriptures to support this doctrine. I have heard it many times, but don't know where they get their info from. satan is a fallen angel, so I am sure that he understands the tongues of angels. And being that angels minister around the world, I am sure that they have the capability to speak every tongue of man also.

The only way that he could not understand would be if the Holy Spirit was using new heavenly languages that he is not privy to. However, there is no scriptural support of that theory. And besides, who cares if he understands your prayers. They should make him tremble because even he understands that there is one God.

One saint who understands who they are in Christ should make him fear everytime they speak to their heavenly Father. He knows that he is a defeated foe.

This is not a major doctrinal item, but I believe that we should stick to the plain/clear teachings of the Word in order to support any NT doctrine.

How dare you disagree with me

Well, it certainly isn't a "salvation" issue. As a matter of fact, it isn't anything I would personally spend a lot of time fussing over. As long as God understands the tongues then that is who I am praying to. However, te passage that I refer to concerning my view is:

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (1 Cor. 14:2)

The "mysteries" referred to may not be so much as "language" as it is God's secret plans, but if they are "mysteries" then the devil should not be able to understand them.

Also, since I don't believe that the devil is omnipresent, nor do I believe that the devil or demons are standing by my bedside when I am praying, then they should not necessarily be privvy to what I am praying anyway in tongues or in English. So, in some ways this is really a non-issue.

[fuego]

How dare you disagree with me

Well, it certainly isn't a "salvation" issue. As a matter of fact, it isn't anything I would personally spend a lot of time fussing over. As long as God understands the tongues then that is who I am praying to. However, te passage that I refer to concerning my view is:

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (1 Cor. 14:2)

The "mysteries" referred to may not be so much as "language" as it is God's secret plans, but if they are "mysteries" then the devil should not be able to understand them.

Also, since I don't believe that the devil is omnipresent, nor do I believe that the devil or demons are standing by my bedside when I am praying, then they should not necessarily be privvy to what I am praying anyway in tongues or in English. So, in some ways this is really a non-issue.

Hey Zeke, I'm answering you but just using VW's post to do it.

Well we get the 'idea' that he can't understand them from the scriptures you quoted there. It isn't just some arbitrary point of view about tongues pulled out of thin air. 'No man understands him' (of course it can be argued that is 'man' and not the devil) and 'howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries' as you quoted. Well, a mystery is a mystery. And I can reasonably deduct that it is a mystery to all but God. As a matter of fact, if you study 'Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words', and I am quoting this from memory, so cut me some slack if it isn't exact, but he says the word 'mystery' is 'that which is out of the range of unassisted natural apprehension and can be made known only by divine intervention', or in other words by revelation of the Holy Spirit. He assists us in our apprehension of the mystery. I don't think the Holy Spirit is assisting the devil in comprehension of what is being spoken.

Of course then it could be argued that the devil(s) doesn't need assistance because he can understand it (from Zeke's point of view). But let's look at what the purpose of tongues bypassing our understanding would accomplish. One thing it accomplishes since it bypasses our understanding and intellect is that it bypasses our unbelief. If we don't know what we're praying, then we can't get overwhelmed by the mystery of what we're praying, and add unbelief to it because it's beyond our faith level at the moment. That's on our level. On the devil's level, it would be so that he doesn't know the plans of God in our behalf and come up with counter measures in order to thwart what God is doing in answer to "who cares if he understands your prayers".

To further the concept, we are ambassadors for Christ. I won't do it here but when you study the whole concept of what an ambassador for a country is, then certain details as 'secret communication' between the ambassador and his home country come to light. What can be more destructive to the devil than God showing us the devil's plan which He knows, and praying the perfect prayers beyond our own understanding and the devil's to thwart those plans.

Anyway, there's more there, but you get the idea. I think there is more to support that the devil doesn't understand from what the scripture says in 1 Cor. 14 than it does that he does understand. Especially when one realized we are in 'warfare' with an enemy and then you begin to liken that to natural warfare, where one just doesn't reveal their plans to the enemy. God is the supreme military strategist.

[Farm Truck]

Those that choose to not pray in tongues must not mind the devil hearing / knowing EVERYTHING they say to the Lord in prayer... and they apparently don't mind the Lord NOT praying the PERFECT WILL OF GOD thru them during times when it is not known what or how to pray which is often in these last days on this totally skrewed up planet!

That's like the offensive unit of an NFL football team out on the field that #1 refuses any imput from the coaching staff and #2 whatever play they decide to run they tell the defense before they run the play.

That's slooooowwww man!