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    Colonel (08-23-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    There isn't a formula for this. We have to be led by the Spirit. Just as Jesus bypassed many sick people at the pool at Bethesda, we have to be willing to bypass many people in order to reach the ones the Holy Spirit leads us to.
    Archaeology tells us that the pool at Bethesda was a pagan site and history tells us that it operated according to pagan philosophical principles. They would stir up the water and then the first one to enter the pool was "healed". The first to reach the water would be the one who was the least sick and therefore the most capable of running faster than everyone else. This was in line with pagan thinking where they honored the fittest. The verses which say that an angel stirred up the waters are likely to be a later addition, they don't appear in the earliest manuscripts.

    Being a pagan site, it was likely that the majority of those that were there were Gentiles. Jesus wasn't sent to the Gentiles, neither to preach to them nor to heal their sick. It's a fact that Jesus never bothered to preach against outright idol worship (at least there is no record of it) so it's likely that there was a very clear division in Judea and Galilee between Gentiles who often practiced the worship of various gods and Jews who did not - whether they followed the law of Moses or not. It was natural for Jesus to bypass the pagan Gentiles at the pool at Bethesda and heal and preach to the Jewish man whom he found there.

    It's funny that you pick the most oblique examples that you can find in order to create an impression that it was normal for Jesus to bypass people who needed healing and for there to be no miracles when Paul preached. All the gospels are full of summations that indicate that Jesus healed everyone and didn't refuse anyone unless they were Gentiles. The book of Acts and the letters are full of summations that indicate that a large number of miracles were worked at the hands of the apostles and that a demonstration of Spirit and of power was the modus operandi, the foundation of Paul's success in ministry.

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    Ezekiel 33 (08-24-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    I graduated from Kenneth Hagin's school, and Brother Hagin said repeatedly that some people put too much emphasis on spiritual gifts, and when you do that you can easily get into the flesh out of a sense that you need to perform. He said "if the Spirit isn't moving that way then just preach the Word because it's always anointed". That's what I'm saying. WoF isn't "go cast demons out of everything that moves and lay hands on every sick person you can find", so in addressing that I'm in agreement with what the leader of the movement taught.
    Hagin was addressing problems that were specific to the Word of Faith movement and Charismaticism during the latter part of the previous century. There was a tendency for there to be a set man with the power and all the gifts who would minister while the congregation watched in awe and their job was to bring the sinners to the meeting where they could be ministered to by "God's anointed". This "God's anointed" was likely to exalt himself over how instrumental he was in God's work and the effect was at any rate that the others, the not-so-anointed who probably did not have any of the spiritual gifts that "God's anointed" had were held back and rendered unable to minister to people the way "God's anointed" with all the spiritual gifts was.

    There are several currents that seek to grow Charismaticism per the late 20th century out of that tendency. It's not about emphasizing spiritual gifts until everyone becomes "God's anointed" and exalts themselves. To the contrary it's about the body of Christ doing the works of Christ, including by way of the gifts of the Spirit, and noone being "God's anointed", exalted above the other ones.

    If that implies extraordinary miracles being worked at the hands of thousands to millions of "ordinary believers" just like it happened in the book of Acts when the shadow of Peter or handkerchiefs of Paul touched the crowds then so be it. Whether the gifts of the Spirit happen to be involved or it's just God honoring the fact that believers are stepping out and doing what we are commissioned to do.

    I myself was doing that during the 1990s when there was little talk of doing things that way, especially in the Western world. It was mostly "get them into the church building" back then. I'm glad that this has become a much stronger current during the last 20 years or so.

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    Ezekiel 33 (08-24-2018)

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