Thread: Margaret Court - Gay Marriage and Qantas

I'm not against ministries towards specific groups of people but singling out gays too much, both positively and negatively, may have a negative effect. The gospel is supposed to work the same for everyone, from nice people to mafia assassins to gays to secret sadomasochists. There is salvation, healing, deliverance, freedom, power to overcome. Take a look at some of the testimonies at last reformation, they have had success with that and it doesn't involve singling them out.

Originally Posted by Valiant Woman

I completely disagree on the highlighted above. As long as we keep quiet about what the Bible says about homosexuality, they'll receive our compassion/love. But its conditional on accepting their choice to be gay.

I've been in on discussions with gays and most of them were full of hate and vileness, even when one is loving towards them. Cussing and spewing viciousness. Sorry Bookman, but I'm not buying that narrative. And I'm tired of the Church being blamed for not loving homosexuals enough. We've reached out to them, they don't want us w/o conditions. Ill say this though, it seems one on one ministry works better.

But they don't want our love, they want us to accept their lifestyle as legitimate, period.

It's mostly the radical gay activists who are so bitter. The homosexual who lives next door to you is often lonely and unhappy. They have higher rates of alcoholism and suicide. But they still don't trust Christians because the message they hear more loudly than compassion and restoration is one of condemnation.

Not only is that a sad commentary, but in my opinion it will ultimately result in more churches making the drastic move into "inclusiveness." Christians who watch as their sons and daughters embrace a gay lifestyle will surely be affected by the world's present attitude that it's something inborn that can't be helped. I'm guessing the church ten years from now will accept the progressive position of accommodating homosexuality. That's why we need to see a strong church rise up with a message of hope for the homosexual and transgendered. If we don't see that kind of positive activism then we will surely see a weakened and anemic church in the future, totally discounted as having any useful influence on society.

Bookman I understand your concerns but there are also other factors at work.

Homosexuality is getting major support to become mainstream and hence not even a sin. It has gained massive support by the community, businesses and politicians.

There are many ministries reaching out that deserve just as much if not more financial support.
Child slavery and pedophilia, ministries to organised crime like mafia and bikie gangs etc. , the slaughter of christians in mission fields?

There are many worthwhile causes but the gay cause seems to get far too much attention and is used to vilify the church. There are some nutty churches that go out of their way to hate gays and these churches should be exposed as being unloving and unchristian.

But many beleivers and churches do show the love of God to gays but they still refuse to repent of their lifestyle and get offended by the truth
We don't make allowances for other sinners yet the gay sinners want the church to embrace their lifestyle

BTW I have close christian friends whose daughter has turned lesbian and we regularly pray for her. The church has not caused this but her own rebellious nature and wanting to live this lifestyle. My niece also lives as a lesbian and once again the church has not hurt her it was the world that hurt her.

Gay sinners are like all other sinners and we need to stop making 'special' conditions for them. I believe that some christians and some specific churches will be called to minister to gays and they need support but they should not be given special preferences over other worthwhile causes.

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

Bookman I understand your concerns but there are also other factors at work.

Homosexuality is getting major support to become mainstream and hence not even a sin. It has gained massive support by the community, businesses and politicians.

There are many ministries reaching out that deserve just as much if not more financial support.
Child slavery and pedophilia, ministries to organised crime like mafia and bikie gangs etc. , the slaughter of christians in mission fields?

There are many worthwhile causes but the gay cause seems to get far too much attention and is used to vilify the church. There are some nutty churches that go out of their way to hate gays and these churches should be exposed as being unloving and unchristian.

But many beleivers and churches do show the love of God to gays but they still refuse to repent of their lifestyle and get offended by the truth
We don't make allowances for other sinners yet the gay sinners want the church to embrace their lifestyle

BTW I have close christian friends whose daughter has turned lesbian and we regularly pray for her. The church has not caused this but her own rebellious nature and wanting to live this lifestyle. My niece also lives as a lesbian and once again the church has not hurt her it was the world that hurt her.

Gay sinners are like all other sinners and we need to stop making 'special' conditions for them. I believe that some christians and some specific churches will be called to minister to gays and they need support but they should not be given special preferences over other worthwhile causes.

I think you make my point, Cardinal. Do you think your niece and your friend's daughter look at Christians as people who have compassion on them or do they see Christians as condemning them? Will they come to you for help when they are finally fed up with the gay life?

BTW, no one "turns" lesbian. It started long ago, usually in childhood.

Pedophilia and zoophilia involve worse perversions than homosexuality does. When I say pedophilia then I mean the version that involves children that are sexually undeveloped. While homosexuality gets a lot of attention they represent a small minority of the population. The number of people who have had sexual encounters with animals isn't much smaller. If we include people who don't dare approach children but watch pedophile porn then that number isn't much smaller either. While homosexuals are hyper-visible in society, those people are the opposite. They are part of the population that one ministers the gospel to. The hyper-visibility of gays shouldn't result in a corresponding hyper-attention from evangelical Christians.

Originally Posted by Bookman

BTW, no one "turns" lesbian. It started long ago, usually in childhood.

Opinion vs scripture.

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Originally Posted by Bookman

I think you make my point, Cardinal. Do you think your niece and your friend's daughter look at Christians as people who have compassion on them or do they see Christians as condemning them? Will they come to you for help when they are finally fed up with the gay life?

BTW, no one "turns" lesbian. It started long ago, usually in childhood.

Both of them have seen and experienced good Christian witness and both decided for personal reasons to live the lesbian lifestyle.
It was the world that poisoned them and sadly they chose this path

Contrary to what you may believe not all practising gays have been attacked by Christians or churches, there are many that want to live that lifestyle regardless of how much love Christians have shown them.

You can't keep blaming Christians for gay problems and make excuses for them. Do we give the same excuses to pedophiles, murderers or rapists who were abused by Christians as children.

My friends still have a close relationship with their daughter and my niece has only ever known goodness from my wife and I.
In their situation the church have nothing to do with them rejecting or hurting them

Over the years I have witnessed and shared with many many people and everyone has scars and hurts and some from churches but I have never seen so many excuses for gays to reject the gospel.

Originally Posted by Colonel

Opinion vs scripture.

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

We are born with a sin nature. How that sin nature develops as we grow up depends on several factors. One factor is our family life. Many homosexuals grow up in a dysfunctional family with the result that they develop homosexually rather than heterosexually. There's nothing about that fact that contradicts Scripture.

Both of them have seen and experienced good Christian witness and both decided for personal reasons to live the lesbian lifestyle.
It was the world that poisoned them and sadly they chose this path

Well, in a way you're right. The poison of this world combined with a sin nature can certainly result in all sorts of sinful behaviors. The thing is, we have the antidote to the world's poison. However, a person won't go to a doctor for an antidote if they don't trust that doctor. Neither will poisoned gays who want an antidote to their spiritual poison go to a Christian if they don't trust them. "Distrust" was the number one word gays used to describe their reaction to Christians. I think that has to change. I think if Jesus had caught two men in a tryst instead of a man and woman, His message would have been the same, "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more."