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Thread: and we r all surprised?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Colonel :-
    Would your stated paradigm apply to healing ?

    As in when we seek Jesus to get healing do we also get nothing?

    From my reading of the scriptures plenty of people sought him primarily for healing

    Likewise The apostles followed him primarily because they thought he was going to set up an earthly kingdom and they would all receive prominent positions yet they didn't get nothing did they ?
    I was waiting outside a Benny Hinn meeting in Oslo in 1989 before getting in and watched a very sick woman talk about how she didn't believe in this but she desperately wanted to be healed and was willing to try anything. She was arguing about this with some Christians who were also crowding before the entrance. It was no surprise that she went home again as sick as when she came. She wasn't seeking Jesus the Healer, she was merely seeking healing.

    I don't think there is a scripture that talks about healing the way Mat 6:33 talks about basic prosperity but there are verses that talk about when Christians seek to get rich outside of the paradigm of seeking God's kingdom and his righteousness first :

    1 Tim 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

    I think the situation with the sick woman that I mentioned above is comparable to when people, especially in third world countries, are seeking to get out of poverty. Jesus may have mercy on them in their unbelief or doubt because their need is great, even if their hearts are set on the result rather than on him. But when it comes to people who see godliness as a way to gain as one scripture says, I don't think he has anything to offer. That doesn't mean that people cannot prosper and become rich based on being blessed by Jesus, if they do in fact seek his kingdom and righteousness first.

    I think Jesus chose his apostles for a reason, their motivations for following Jesus matured as they got deeper revelations of who he was and what he was about. The crowds in general followed him for very varying reasons of course, it seems that some followed him around just to get fed while avoiding work.

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  3. #12
    Yes but the bible says we should come to him as children and children by nature can be pretty self absorbed

    Point is most of us come to him at least at the onset cause we want something from him .

    With maturity we learn to strive to reflect him rather than just take from him nonethless there is a place for "forgetting not his benefits" as the bible enjoins

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  5. #13
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I don't think that that is what Jesus meant when he said that, BAP. Children can be mean and cruel and expert bullies too, that doesn't mean that they are being childlike while doing any of that.

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  7. #14
    True .. However I believe it does allude to the freedom children have when they come to their parents for provision

    No sane parent makes his willingness to take a sick child to a doctor requisite on good or perfect behavior and motives of the child in informing its parents of his need or ailment .. Wouldnt the same paradigm apply to God after all Yeshua. Referred to healing as children's bread

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  9. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Referred to healing as children's bread
    And the one that got it wasn't even one of the 'children'. So I think Jesus is pretty merciful to those that seek him for something, even those that aren't His 'children'.

    Also, Paul said (under the inspiration of the Spirit of course) to 'seek earnestly the best GIFTS, yet I show you a more excellent way.' Is there a more excellent way? Yes. But is it still all right to seek the gift and not the giver? Appears so, as least when one is a 'child' in regards to maturity (as that is the context eventually when you get to chapter 13). The great thing about Jesus is he meets people where they are.

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  11. #16
    Resident Chocolate Monster Lista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Uh OH ----

    Jesus ---> Yeshua. Its root word is ... salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1
    http://olivepresspublisher.com/wp/wp...ame-Study1.pdf

    Seems to me like David Platt whoever he may be needs to dig a little deeper , Jesus Himself Declared that his purpose was to bring Health, Wealth and Prosperity .. His very Name embodies this very purpose ...

    Jesus/Yeshua was not just an abstraction his presence in your life should have real impact


    PS: My comment above has no bearing on the Paula White and Donald Trump Saga ... Just the David Platt Quote .. thats it
    I think it's more a statement of, "don't come with ulterior motives beyond the need for salvation." BUT as Fuego just said, "The great thing about Jesus is He meets people where they are."

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  13. #17
    the point is, if we're only there for the *goodies* and not our savior, it's selfserving gimmee.

    ALL of the *goodies* are a by product of our relationship with the One True and Living God. If we don't have the relationship, it's a sham salvation.

    Not saying the goodies aren't nice, saying if they're the center, it's a false relationship.

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  15. #18
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    True .. However I believe it does allude to the freedom children have when they come to their parents for provision

    No sane parent makes his willingness to take a sick child to a doctor requisite on good or perfect behavior and motives of the child in informing its parents of his need or ailment .. Wouldnt the same paradigm apply to God after all Yeshua. Referred to healing as children's bread
    The Israelites believed in God and were his children and they all wanted healing but they weren't all healed. Coming to him in childlike faith is different to coming to him as an adult with the intention of obtaining the available riches. Jesus told people to become like little children in seeking him. To be childlike. Which is different to childish, which the business oriented adult is more than capable of being.

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    And the one that got it wasn't even one of the 'children'. So I think Jesus is pretty merciful to those that seek him for something, even those that aren't His 'children'.

    @@@According to the passage he healed her based on her great faith and not based on mercy with her situation.

    Also, Paul said (under the inspiration of the Spirit of course) to 'seek earnestly the best GIFTS, yet I show you a more excellent way.' Is there a more excellent way? Yes. But is it still all right to seek the gift and not the giver? Appears so, as least when one is a 'child' in regards to maturity (as that is the context eventually when you get to chapter 13). The great thing about Jesus is he meets people where they are.

    @@@According to the passage, love is the more excellent way (12:31-13:1), not being a child (13:11). That refers to something different - the fact that we know and prophesy in part, making our renditions childlike (13:9-10) rather than mature which is what they would have been if we had known fully.
    .

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

  19. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    the point is, if we're only there for the *goodies* and not our savior, it's selfserving gimmee.

    ALL of the *goodies* are a by product of our relationship with the One True and Living God. If we don't have the relationship, it's a sham salvation.

    Not saying the goodies aren't nice, saying if they're the center, it's a false relationship.
    Ok so you are saying that the wealth and the health and the prosperity , the goodies so to speak are indeed to be desired . They simply shouldn't be the center .Fair enough but David platts quote in my estimation goes beyond that and appears to brand any promise of goodies heretical . Am I wrong ?

    Keep in mind that Jesus himself promised many of goodies and didn't seem to be bashfu in doing so . His missions statement in Luke 4 was a bag full of goodies with no conditions attached beyond a willingness and a desire to receive of him .. no ?

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    FresnoJoe (09-26-2015)

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