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Thread: Hillsong

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    As Fuego said many preachers no longer just tell it straight. Some things are very clear and preachers need to make a stand instead of worrying about the consequences
    Then there are different ways of "telling it straight" and Brian Houston's current approach is not a bad one. My feeling is that right now is a difficult time because of the strong transitional current in Western society towards accepting gay marriage. If things don't escalate further than that (in the direction of totalitarianism) then society will eventually find some level of boredom about that whole thing and tensions will decrease until there is a secular framework and a religious alternative.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    The gay couple in question from Hillsong are currently abstinent which is good but they said they were intending to marry.
    How will they respond when they find out that Hillsong says they will be living in sin

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    The gay couple in question from Hillsong are currently abstinent which is good but they said they were intending to marry.
    How will respond when they find out that Hillsong says they are still living in sin
    Marriage has very much come to be defined in terms of individuals being defined as married according to the government institution and when that one is altered, people attempt to simply employ the new definition. Perhaps the Church needs to distance itself more from the government definitions, in every way.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Not everyone who claims a gay identity is part of the gay agenda
    Claiming to identify as being gay (gay identity) is iniquity because that person is seeing themselves and claiming to be something God did not make them to be and actually forbids as being an obamanation.

    This is akin to what Jesus taught concerning the guy that lusts after a woman in his heart has actually committed adultery regardless of not actually having had physical relations with the woman. He said this was sin.

    So if the gay person does not repent and allow the Holy Spirit burn that desire to be gay out of them so they can identify with being a new creation in Christ Jesus, they are still workers of iniquity and Jesus tells those that work iniquity to depart from Him - meaning, we won't see them at the marriage supper of the Lamb!

    The majority of these gutless TV preachers are preaching another gospel. Just because they include a few scriptures in their message and put a Jesus fish on the bumper of they cars does not make them Christians. Jesus warned us about false teachers and even warned us that satan would plant false brethren among us.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    How will they respond when they find out that Hillsong says they will be living in sin
    They won't be told that. Brian Houston is just a hair away now from embracing so called "gay christians" as he has publicly said the gay thing needs to be an ongoing discussion - which means he is not standing on what God said about it and wants to talk about it.

    There is NO debating this - God said He does not accept any of the sins of the flesh, so that settles it!

    At least for those that are led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ Who leads us in to all Truth and God's Word IS Truth - so God has settled this for all eternity. There will be no homosexuals in Heaven, not will there be any who identify as homosexuals but just refrain from gay sex.

    We are called to conform to the image of Jesus Christ, and He ain't gay nor does He identify as being gay!

    If it weren't so pathetic, it would be hilarious that Christians are even thinking like it could be OK to be gay or identify as being gay. This only happens with Christians that are ignorant of what God said in His Word on this subject.

    And some wonder why this nation is getting weaker by the day

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  9. #25
    Hillsong, Homosexuality, Internet Rumors and Spiritual Clarity
    It's essential that Christian leaders speak clearly on the controversial doctrinal and moral issues of the day
    Dr Michael Brown



    There's a lot we can learn from this week's viral internet accusation that Carl Lentz, pastor of Hillsong NYC, allowed an openly homosexual couple to participate in and help lead a church choir.

    The report was posted on Saturday, and by the next day, everywhere I turned, people were asking, "Is this true?" (My ministry team then reached out to Hillsong NYC for clarification.)

    Others, not waiting for verification, believed the worst and went on the attack, not just blasting Hillsong in New York City but also across the globe.

    On Wednesday, Brian Houston, leader of Hillsong and Carl Lentz's pastor, issued two statements.

    In the first statement, he affirmed that Hillsong held to the clear scriptural teaching on the subject of homosexuality and that marriage was the union of a man and woman, also stating that while gays were loved and welcomed in his church, practicing homosexuals could not participate in any leadership or ministry role.

    In the second statement, he categorically denied the Internet rumors, saying that the church was completely surprised when they learned about this couple being in a homosexual relationship and that to his knowledge, they had not since been involved in any ministry or leadership role in the church. He then reaffirmed his love for them and stated that they, like the rest of us, were on a journey.

    Pastor Lentz affirmed both of these statements on Twitter, and I immediately posted them as widely as I could, with appreciation to Pastor Houston for addressing these issues publicly.

    But there are two obvious lessons from this week's events.

    First, as Christians, we are often all too quick to believe and then repeat a rumor rather than hoping for the best and waiting until the evidence is in. Why are we so quick to attack and accuse, especially when we don't even know if the stories are true? Is this a demonstration of love?

    How would we feel if the same was done to us—to our families, to our congregations, to our reputations—and people we didn't even know helped spread lies about us, lies that can color people's thinking for years to come?

    With the speed with which things fly around the world today via the Internet, and with the difficulty of undoing something once it's been done, we had better be sure that we have our facts in order and our attitudes right before making a public declaration or sharing our opinion (if there's even a need for us to do either).

    I have often been burdened to address issues in writing or on radio, and I always do my best to get all the facts in order, also trying to reach out privately whenever possible before addressing things publicly.

    But earlier this year I had to apologize publicly to a national leader for relying on an article that grouped his quotes together as if they came from the same message, giving a misleading impression (even though the quotes were accurate and of real concern).

    So what I write here, I write for myself as well as for others. Let's be sure we have our facts in order before coming to any conclusions.

    The second lesson is that it's essential that Christian leaders speak clearly on the controversial doctrinal and moral issues of the day. It is possible (and essential) to have both compassion and clarity.

    To use Paul's words (from a very different context), "Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air" (1 Cor. 14:7-9).

    I recently listened to a five-minute interview with one of America's most famous pastors in which he was gently pressed for clarity on his views on homosexuality and the church, and his answers could hardly have been more fuzzy.

    And that's part of the problem with the accusation against Hillsong NYC: Pastor Lentz had failed to speak clearly to the issue at least twice last year, both on network TV and on the Huffington Post online.

    In fact, as I watched the Huffington Post interview, trying to put the best construction on it and rooting for Pastor Lentz, I said to myself, "If I was this interviewer, I would absolutely believe that homosexual couples would be welcomed without restriction into the life and ministry of his church."

    That's why I reached out to Pastor Lentz last year as well, offering help not condemnation, believing that God is using him to reach NYers with the Good News of the gospel.

    The question is: Why can't we be clear from the start? Why say things that avoid direct answers and instead lead to confusion?

    I fully understand the need not to get trapped by the secular media—I've been in the hot seat enough times to know the drill—and I commend Christian leaders who will say what they feel is important rather than play along with the agenda of a hostile interviewer. (For Pastor Houston addressing this when it comes to "gay marriage," go here.)

    Yet there's such a thing as speaking the truth with wisdom and in love, and throughout Scripture, honest, open rebuke is seen as a sign of love.

    Unfortunately, fair questions are now being asked concerning Pastor Houston's first statement issued on Wednesday, where he said, "So if you are gay, are you welcome at Hillsong Church? Of course! You are welcome to attend, worship with us, and participate as a congregation member with the assurance that you are personally included and accepted within our community. But (this is where it gets vexing), can you take an active leadership role? No."

    What exactly does this mean? Is he speaking about someone who is same-sex attracted but rejects those attractions and is living a holy life before the Lord? Or is he speaking about a practicing homosexual? If so, on what basis can he or she "participate as a congregation member with the assurance that you are personally included and accepted within our community"?

    Would Pastor Houston say the same thing about a couple living together out of wedlock? Would he say the same thing about a non-repentant alcoholic? If so, what of Paul's clear teaching in 1 Corinthians 5 about how to deal with professing Christians who will not repent?

    I am cheering on Pastor Houston and Pastor Lentz, praying that they will make Jesus known even more in Australia and New York City and the nations, and like millions of others, I have been personally blessed by Hillsong's many wonderful worship songs.

    That's why I urge my brothers and colleagues to speak with a clear, unambiguous and scripturally sound voice, not just in church settings but before the secular media as well.

    If we are to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world—or, as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, "the moral conscience" of the society—we cannot lose our saltiness and we must shine brightly and without shame, in deed and in word.

    The same world that hates us is actually depending on us.

    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...ritual-clarity

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Hillsong, Homosexuality, Internet Rumors and Spiritual Clarity
    It's essential that Christian leaders speak clearly on the controversial doctrinal and moral issues of the day
    Dr Michael Brown


    There's a lot we can learn from this week's viral internet accusation that Carl Lentz, pastor of Hillsong NYC, allowed an openly homosexual couple to participate in and help lead a church choir.

    The report was posted on Saturday, and by the next day, everywhere I turned, people were asking, "Is this true?" (My ministry team then reached out to Hillsong NYC for clarification.)

    Others, not waiting for verification, believed the worst and went on the attack, not just blasting Hillsong in New York City but also across the globe.
    The flesh finds evil more entertaining than good and the rumor that evil things are going on tends to get propagated whether it is true or not = gossip.

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  13. #27
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    Unfortunately... there's more to the story here.

    Brian Houston's press release ( http://hillsong.com/media-releases/h...-brian-houston ) says:

    Several months ago when one of our choir directors made an unexpected public statement regarding his engagement to a man who sometimes sang in the choir, it was a complete surprise to us as well. It is my understanding that they have not been involved in an active leadership or ministry role since. That said, we still love them and acknowledge that they – like all of us – are on a journey, and our role as a church is to assist them on this journey with grace and compassion
    "Assist them on this journey"??? To do what, become good gay "christians"???

    "On a journey"??? The guy that was one of their choir directors publicly stated that he was gay and all he got was demoted... and apparently is STILL in the choir? Scriptural mistake #1 is that this person was not removed from the choir immediately - a little leven...

    Scriptural mistake #2 is the Pastor of Hillsong, Brian Houston is not publicly adhering to scripture ( see his interview at http://www.christiannewsweek.com/cbn...y-with-it.html ), which means this guy is preparing to accept homosexuality because if he wasn't he would ALREADY be in agreement with God's position on this subject instead of riding the fence like a good hypocrite!

    You watch... more and more big time ministries are going to accept homosexuality so they don't lose offerings and prestige in the eyes of the world. The media is claiming the Bible is "hate speech" which is why new translations coming out are easy on sin.

    Some will end up losing their salvation over this and other issues because they will be guilty of idolatry having turned away from allowing the Lord to live in them and be their very first priority in life, becoming workers of iniquity! Sadly, we can expect more "falling away" from big time ministries.

    And what's even more sad is many have made idols of big time ministers and they can no longer think for themselves. So, when their favorite TV preacher accepts the gay thing and the one world government... their sheep will follow them right in to destruction.

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  15. #28
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    Wow, looks like TD Jakes is now "evolving" on the issue of homosexuality

    http://christiannews.net/2015/08/07/...n-is-evolving/

    Looks like these big ministries will do anything to prevent their offerings from going down, or to prevent their "brand" from being tarnished!

    Wonder who will be next...

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  17. #29
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    ok guys lets just cut through all the horse manure and call it like it is. homosexuality is sin. not any less or more than any other sin but nonetheless sin. gay marriage is sin. living together is sin, and so on and so on.... either those in the equipping ministries stand up 4 righteousness or they don't. beating around the proverbial bush just dont get it period. frankly houston and the rest of these guys will either call a spade a spade or dont speak at all. i c a time where the true church will come out of this mess and stand in true holiness and righteousness speaking the true gospel of Jesus Christ and nothing less. and those that do speak will not b those representing the church 2day thank goodness....

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeze View Post
    the true church will come out of this mess and stand in true holiness and righteousness speaking the true gospel of Jesus Christ
    There are people like that now... and the extreme grace crowd calls them "religious" and claims they have a "religious spirit" because they believe God wrote a Book and in it He let us know what His Will is.

    When people ask me if I listen to one of these big time extreme grace TV preachers,
    I'm going to start calmly saying "No, my ears aren't itching"

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