Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: Jim Caviezel: New 'Passion of the Christ' to be 'biggest film in history'

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    12,286
    Thanked: 4694
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    That is correct. All are guilty of sin and all need redemption. The problem with Mel Gibson is that Jewish people around the world heard him say that the Jews killed Jesus.
    Mel Gibson is an alcoholic and has other problems too. He was probably not speaking out of his right mind when he voiced various anti-semitic thoughts. I feel that his involvement with the movies about Jesus function as a form of personal redemption for him and I respect that a lot.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), FaithfulOne (02-04-2018), Romans828 (02-05-2018)

  3. #12
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    12,286
    Thanked: 4694
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I totally agree that everyone is accountable for the death of Jesus ...gentiles and Jews

    But we cannot deny that the scriptures say that the Jewish nation was held specifically accountable....the reason why Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 was due to the rejection of Jesus. For 1900 years they were without a nation as it was the judgement of God

    ****This does not mean God condones anti Semitism nor gives the gentiles a free pass for persecuting Jews. Killing of the Jews was evil and satanic and God will judge those that did it****

    I support Israel but we still have to accept the scriptures written by Jews who blame the Jewish nation as a whole even though many did accept Jesus

    Written by a Jew the apostle John says quite clearly as a nation Israel rejected Jesus
    John 1:11 - He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
    The verse I bolded in my previous post is a strong one in terms of judgment :

    25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”

    The Jews that were present spoke a curse upon themselves as if they were sure that God would vindicate them for having killed or agreed to the killing of Jesus and therefore the curse would not take effect. But in those times speaking a curse, especially upon oneself or one's family, was an extremely serious matter. So they basically opened themselves to the forces of evil by doing that in their arrogance. "and on our children" includes children's children and so on.

    Luke 23:27 And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’ 31 For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”

    Verse 31 is poorly translated in the KJV. The Norwegian translation has "For if they do these things to the green tree, what will be done to the dry ones?"

    Which makes sense with the context of verse 28. The Romans were about to kill Jesus, with the acceptance of the Jewish leaders and the multitude that they rallied against him but later on they would do worse to the Jews that weren't sinless like Jesus was. Which is what happened in 70 AD. And arguably later on throughout history. In part because of the curse that they spoke upon themselves.

    That doesn't mean that any present day Jew is guilty of what happened back then but there is such a thing as generational curses (until they are broken because the person comes under the blood of Jesus and is redeemed from it). Even when the person doesn't participate in the sins of his ancestors by blaspheming against Jesus or similar like some (not all) religious Jews do.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), Quest (02-04-2018)

  5. #13
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,628
    Thanked: 3174
    Blog Entries
    2
    I will briefly respond to this thread because there the Jewish leadership calling for HIS death and the reality that He could have called legions of angels to deliver HIM.

    Then we also have Peter's sermon on the Day of Pentecost when he stated, "22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:"

    1st he was speaking to a specific audience...Israelites....and he emphasizes the two parallel truths.....'handed over by God's plan' AND 'you with the help of wicked men' put Him to death.

    None of the above alters the other realities...the recipients of the promise....beloved of God...

    I feel no need to ignore these strong scripture passages ....having said that I hold no anti-Semitism toward the Jewish people....love them...so I have no problem embracing that whole truth....

    Now I have heard Mel is....but what Scripture plainly states cannot be tossed in order to attempt to change them....so as I see it anti Semitism is separate from the scriptural truths....

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    curly sue (02-04-2018), Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), FaithfulOne (02-04-2018), Valiant Woman (02-13-2018)

  7. #14
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    9,124
    Thanked: 7192
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I feel no need to ignore these strong scripture passages ....having said that I hold no anti-Semitism toward the Jewish people....love them...so I have no problem embracing that whole truth....

    Now I have heard Mel is....but what Scripture plainly states cannot be tossed in order to attempt to change them....so as I see it anti Semitism is separate from the scriptural truths....
    Bingo.

    I guess Peter was 'anti-Semetic'.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), Quest (02-04-2018)

  9. #15
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    12,286
    Thanked: 4694
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I will briefly respond to this thread because there the Jewish leadership calling for HIS death and the reality that He could have called legions of angels to deliver HIM.

    Then we also have Peter's sermon on the Day of Pentecost when he stated, "22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:"

    1st he was speaking to a specific audience...Israelites....and he emphasizes the two parallel truths.....'handed over by God's plan' AND 'you with the help of wicked men' put Him to death.

    None of the above alters the other realities...the recipients of the promise....beloved of God...

    I feel no need to ignore these strong scripture passages ....having said that I hold no anti-Semitism toward the Jewish people....love them...so I have no problem embracing that whole truth....

    Now I have heard Mel is....but what Scripture plainly states cannot be tossed in order to attempt to change them....so as I see it anti Semitism is separate from the scriptural truths....
    Good point, "with the aid of wicked men". Which refers to the Romans. The gospels declare plainly that the Romans would have let Jesus go unless the Jewish leadership along with the multitude had insisted on Barabbas being released instead.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), Quest (02-04-2018)

  11. #16
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    12,286
    Thanked: 4694
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Bingo.

    I guess Peter was 'anti-Semetic'.
    It's a bit like when people say something negative about Obama and they get the racist card, isn't it ? "Jews killed Jesus" (not quite the same as "the Jews killed Jesus") seems to be sufficient to get one the anti-semite card.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-06-2018), fuego (02-04-2018), Quest (02-04-2018)

  13. #17
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    373
    Thanked: 368
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Bingo.

    I guess Peter was 'anti-Semetic'.
    Well that is about as "out of context" as is possible. Wow! How can anyone respond?

  14. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    The previous movie contained most of the elements of classic anti-Semitic passion plays. Either by implication or by direct statements, blaming the death of Jesus on the Jewish leadership and by extension the Jewish people. It was very difficult for us as believers to endure the indignant response of our friends and neighbors. They rightly said that the Jews did not kill Jesus. According to Jesus himself, the Romans didn't kill him either. He said that He decided to lay down His life and nobody took it from Him.
    I don't think that Mel Gibson has changed his theology even though he said it was not his intention to blame Jewish people for the death of Jesus. That makes me nervous about what he will do to continue his previous plot and script. I've no doubt that I will watch the movie when it is out but I will be watching with apprehension.
    Hey, Tehilah,
    In the spirit of understanding and goodwill, I wanted to make sure about what your objections were. It seems to me there are two main thrusts:
    #1 - The evidentiary facts that we know from the Scriptures. We can calmly accept that at the action-layer, SOME of the Jews took part in determining/influencing that Jesus be crucified.
    #2 - What we do with the facts. Christians (or anybody) should not be against Jews in general, because of #1. If Jesus can forgive those who played a part in his getting crucified, why should we hold a grudge on those individuals, let alone the whole group, some of who believed in Jesus?

    I believe everybody who routinely comments here has no prejudicial or negative, hateful attitude that is ugly and demonic anti-Semitism. We can accept #1 without using it as a pretext for anti-Semitism.

    But you make an interesting assertion, that it was the Sadduccees that were the ones against Jesus, not the Pharisees. Can you explain how you get that?

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jonathan david For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (02-16-2018), Quest (02-14-2018), Romans828 (02-14-2018)

  16. #19
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    373
    Thanked: 368
    Modern Israeli (Modern Orthodox) Jews freely associate themselves with the Pharisees of the first century. The reason they do is because they love the Bible, want to act out the wishes of God as written in the Bible and refuse to accept the dilution of the Bible by modern "Higher Criticism," political correctness or even modern technology. The Sadducees of the first century did not accept the Bible as a literal message from God, did not believe in resurrection from the dead, did cooperate with the Romans, did allow bribery as a means of achieving office and many more elements of what we would call political correctness in this century. Jesus grew up in a geographical area that was predominantly Pharisee. He often made statements to correct things taught by the Pharisees but He did that by pointing them to the Bible and the teachings of their own elders. It seems clear that He was giving correction to the group that were around Him and that his reproof was usually accepted as having authority within the society.
    I should point out that the high priest at the time of the crucifixion was a man who was appointed to office by the Romans and was not accepted by the Pharisees because it was well known that the office of high priest was purchased. Many of these facts are written in the scrolls found at Qumran including scrolls brought there by priest who escaped Jerusalem at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Not all of the scrolls found at Qumran were from the Essenes, some of them were hidden by priest from Jerusalem in "Cave 3" a little north of Qumran.
    I hope that helps. I do have more information of some of the things in other sources if you need but it would be difficult to get that for you since it is written in very expensive books that I cannot copy.

  17. #20
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    12,286
    Thanked: 4694
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Modern Israeli (Modern Orthodox) Jews freely associate themselves with the Pharisees of the first century. The reason they do is because they love the Bible, want to act out the wishes of God as written in the Bible and refuse to accept the dilution of the Bible by modern "Higher Criticism," political correctness or even modern technology. The Sadducees of the first century did not accept the Bible as a literal message from God, did not believe in resurrection from the dead, did cooperate with the Romans, did allow bribery as a means of achieving office and many more elements of what we would call political correctness in this century. Jesus grew up in a geographical area that was predominantly Pharisee. He often made statements to correct things taught by the Pharisees but He did that by pointing them to the Bible and the teachings of their own elders. It seems clear that He was giving correction to the group that were around Him and that his reproof was usually accepted as having authority within the society.
    I should point out that the high priest at the time of the crucifixion was a man who was appointed to office by the Romans and was not accepted by the Pharisees because it was well known that the office of high priest was purchased. Many of these facts are written in the scrolls found at Qumran including scrolls brought there by priest who escaped Jerusalem at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Not all of the scrolls found at Qumran were from the Essenes, some of them were hidden by priest from Jerusalem in "Cave 3" a little north of Qumran.
    I hope that helps. I do have more information of some of the things in other sources if you need but it would be difficult to get that for you since it is written in very expensive books that I cannot copy.
    The Roman-appointed high priest is an interesting piece of info but vindicating the Pharisees as a group is impossible :

    Mat 12:11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.

    The same account :

    Mark 3:6 Then the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how they might destroy Him.

    A different account from early in his ministry :

    John 7:32 The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring these things concerning Him, and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take Him.

    John 11:57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a command, that if anyone knew where He was, he should report it, that they might seize Him.

    John 18:3 Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons.

    Paul was also a Pharisee when he became the worst of all the persecutors at the time of the stoning of Stephen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Toyota Camry warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.