Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: The New Testament Doesn't Say What Most People Think It Does About Heaven

  1. #1
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    8,050
    Thanked: 6089

    The New Testament Doesn't Say What Most People Think It Does About Heaven

    I found this an interesting read, but I don't have the kind of knowledge I need to know if it's solid teaching. First, it's in Time magazine, and second, it's written by a university professor. Pull this apart for me.


    The New Testament Doesn't Say What Most People Think It Does About Heaven

    One of the central stories of the Bible, many people believe, is that there is a heaven and an earth and that human souls have been exiled from heaven and are serving out time here on earth until they can return. Indeed, for most modern Christians, the idea of "going to heaven when you die" is not simply one belief among others, but the one that seems to give a point to it all.

    But the people who believed in that kind of "heaven" when the New Testament was written were not the early Christians. They were the "Middle Platonists" — people like Plutarch (a younger contemporary of St Paul who was a philosopher, biographer, essayist and pagan priest in Delphi). To understand what the first followers of Jesus believed about what happens after death, we need to read the New Testament in its own world — the world of Jewish hope, of Roman imperialism and of Greek thought.

    The followers of the Jesus-movement that grew up in that complex environment saw "heaven" and "earth" — God's space and ours, if you like — as the twin halves of God's good creation. Rather than rescuing people from the latter in order to reach the former, the creator God would finally bring heaven and earth together in a great act of new creation, completing the original creative purpose by healing the entire cosmos of its ancient ills. They believed that God would then raise his people from the dead, to share in — and, indeed, to share his stewardship over — this rescued and renewed creation. And they believed all this because of Jesus.


    The Museum of the Bible Opens in Washington D.C.
    TIME spoke with Steve Green, the Museum of the Bible's Chairman, on the purpose of the museum and the role of the Bible in U.S. politics.
    SharePlay Video
    They believed that with the resurrection of Jesus this new creation had already been launched. Jesus embodied in himself the perfect fusion of "heaven" and "earth." In Jesus, therefore, the ancient Jewish hope had come true at last. The point was not for us to "go to heaven," but for the life of heaven to arrive on earth. Jesus taught his followers to pray: "Thy kingdom come on earth as in heaven." From as early as the third century, some Christian teachers tried to blend this with types of the Platonic belief, generating the idea of "leaving earth and going to heaven," which became mainstream by the Middle Ages. But Jesus' first followers never went that route.

    N. T. Wright is the Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the University of St Andrews, a Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University and the author of over 80 books, including The New Testament in Its World.

    What the New Testament Really Says About Heaven | Time

  2. #2

    I Corinthians 15:16-28

    (16) ...For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    (17) And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    (18) Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

    (19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
    (20) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    (21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    (22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    (23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    (25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    (26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    (27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all....


    ***


    II Peter 3:13
    Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.








    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GodismyJudge For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-29-2019), Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  4. #3
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Good observation AJ
    I came across this article a few days ago - The writer is N.T Wright a retired Anglican Bishop, academic and professor.

    I have enjoyed listening to some of his YouTube messages about the apostle Paul who he has researched.
    It's good as Pentecostals to listen to those outside our flavor and movement.
    Some mainstream ministers have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom in certain areas of teaching but also be alert that some are liberals and teach falsehoods

    But saying that I am disappointed overall in this article even though he makes some relevant points.
    IMO he gets confused when he talks about souls of believers going to heaven and a future life back on earth
    He resorts to pagan Greek culture to say our modern understanding has been warped and this was not the intention of the early believers.

    Jesus & the early church preached our home is in heaven, our eternal reward is in heaven, God has his throne in heaven and we shall be with him.

    He fails to differentiate there is a purpose for heaven, a purpose for earth and how it works together.
    The resurrection of our body gives us a new life on earth at Christ's coming but it does not dismiss our eternal home in heaven


    It is actually a good discussion and believers should understand the dichotomy of heaven and earth but one does not cancel out the other.
    It isn't adequately taught from many pulpits and many ministers are ignorant of the subject.

    I give credit to NT Wright to address the issue but disagree with some keys points in his analysis.
    His final conclusion seems similar to what I believe that heaven and earth will become one but the way he gets there is distorted and misses a major ingredient about heaven being our heavenly home.

    There are literally multitudes of millions living in heaven now - is it just a 'waiting room' where they are waiting for their real home?
    No - it's their eternal home as the scripture teaches.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-29-2019), curly sue (12-30-2019), Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  6. #4
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Apostle Peter
    Taught that our inheritance was in heaven - Peter also believed in a new earth one day but he didn't dismiss heaven in the process
    1 Peter 1:4 - to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you..

    Apostle Paul
    Phil 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
    Coll 1:5 - because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,

    Jesus
    Promised the thief on the cross his reward is paradise NOW.
    He didn't say...You will die but have great hope that one day your body will be resurrected and your reward will be the new earth
    Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."


    The preaching of heaven as our reward is 100% scripture. Jesus, Peter and Paul preached it

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cardinal TT For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-30-2019), curly sue (12-30-2019), Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  8. #5
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Some translations talk about the kingdom of heaven being among us, some say that it is inside us. One verse says that it is in power. Another that it is in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. All these things are spiritual. As one verse says, God is spirit. That says more than that one part of the trinity is the Holy Spirit, it says something about what God is fundamentally. The spiritual things of the kingdom have the ability to affect the natural greatly, including the new Earth that God will eventually create to replace this one. But they also exist fundamentally in and of themselves and they are where God resides, along with spiritual beings like angels. The times when I've found myself inside a glory cloud while in prayer, sometimes for hours, I've gotten a sense of these things. The glory was condensed and it's not hard to imagine that it could become so condensed that it feels like it's more real than the natural is. Not only that we know that it is fundamentally more real and that the natural depends on the spiritual for its existence but that it actually feels that way. That is the kingdom of heaven and where God resides it would feel more real than the natural, if one were to be fully present there. That's how the departed saints naturally feel about where they are currently residing - even though they long for a future resurrection where they will also be on a new Earth and where the kingdom of heaven is fully present along with the natural.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-30-2019)

  10. #6
    I read an article about this at the Christian Post a couple of days ago. It wasn't too well received by some who left comments. I don't see the comments now.

    I was taught there is no literal heaven, no literal hell, no literal second coming of Jesus, that we would usher in the kingdom here on earth. So I don't give "extra Biblical revelation" much credibility.

    Most Christians misunderstand what Heaven really is, theologian NT Wright says - The Christian Post

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to curly sue For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-30-2019), Cardinal TT (12-30-2019), Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  12. #7
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    I was taught there is no literal heaven, no literal hell, no literal second coming of Jesus, that we would usher in the kingdom here on earth. So I don't give "extra Biblical revelation" much credibility.
    I know you came from Latter Rain movement but am surprised that they taught the above. The Kingdom Now was their emphasis but did all LR dismiss heaven and hell.

  13. #8
    Several of the older folks started in LR and then it went into manafestation of the sons of God as a younger generation came along. I think there probably was a wide spectrum of beliefs then. In later years, some began to whisper that we could achieve immortality in this life. Now and then even some universalism came up. Some believed in speaking things into being and calling the dead back to life.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to curly sue For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  15. #9
    Several of the older folks started in LR and then it went into manafestation of the sons of God as a younger generation came along. I think there probably was a wide spectrum of beliefs then. In later years, some began to whisper that we could achieve immortality in this life. Now and then even some universalism came up. Some believed in speaking things into being and calling the dead back to life.


    Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread.

    I once bought a book by N.T. Wright. I never could get into it and sent it on it's way.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to curly sue For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

  17. #10
    I just went to, We Don't Know What, (Exactly,) Heaven Will Be

    so, I don't even think much about it.
    We DO know we'll be with Him, and that's enough for me.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Femme* For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (01-07-2020)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid expensive repair costs with an extended service plan for your Chrysler. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in surprise expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.