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Thread: Questions about the Rapture

  1. #1
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Questions about the Rapture


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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    The Rapture of the church is an absolute truth!!!!



























































    Just not before the tribulation, as we have already entered into that period.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Their first error is that they separate the 2nd coming of Christ from the rapture. There is not a single scripture used in its proper context that supports this.

    Next they talk about a 2-stage second coming, with the second part being 7 years after the first part. Again, not a single scripture to support this. At about 3:10-3:15 he tramples all over 2 Thessalonians 1:10. If the church is raptured before the actual coming of the Lord, then WHO is He going to be admired by and glorified in?

    At 3:51 Revelation 1:7 & Matthew 24:30-31 are violated. And Matthew 29 says that this event is after the tribulation.

    At around 8:20 they make the assumption that tribulation and the wrath of God are one and the same. Scripture does not reconcile the two. Jesus told His disciples "In this world you WILL have tribulation".

    At around 8:28 he violates Revelation 3:10 and makes it fit into his theory rather than accepting it as plainly written, a letter to the church at Philadelphia.

    Now he is talking about a "T" Tribulation -vs- a "t" tribulation. How many dead Christians does it take to constitute a "T" Tribulation? Millions were killed during the first couple hundred years of demon-inspired islam.

    Around 10:24 they talk about Revelation 15 and how "the wrath of God is complete".

    However, this still does not dispute that we go up as He comes down to take vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    At 12:12--Please tell the millions of Christians who were beheaded for their faith at the hands of islam, the Christians who were used for torches and fed to the lions by the Romans, the Chinese Christians tortured for their faith, etc. that "they are going to be taken out before all this happens".

    Around 14:40 he claims that the pre-trib rapture teaching is a "Re-awakening of what Jesus and the apostles taught". However, when we scour through the written teachings of Jesus and the apostles, there is no pre-trib rapture doctrine taught. The pre-trib rapture doctrine is a "THEORY", not a fact. It cannot be proven without taking scripture out of context and making it fit into the preconceived mold of a pre-tribulation rapture.


    Around 14:51 he claims that this THEORY comes from a "Literal interpretation of the scriptures".

    But if it were "literal" why do we have to patch it together with scriptures taken out of context? Could you please produce a single scripture IN CONTEXT which states that the RAPTURE and the SECOND COMING are 2 separate happenings and that the rapture will happen before the tribulation?

    World history shows that the tribulation started a long time ago.

    16:58 shows a glimmer of truth: "and PEOPLE began to develop the idea of the rapture".

    Scripture plainly teaches what is and what isn't NT church doctrine. It doesn't need to be developed by people.

    Around 19:56 they start talking about Jesus' comment about coming as a thief. What they ignore is that Jesus repeats this statement right between the 6th and 7th bowl judgments. So do you think He is coming at that point or before the first bowl is poured out?

    At 19:15 he talks about 1 Thessalonians 5 but skips over a very important part of this passage: "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief."

    Read the passage for yourself and then notice that "this day" is the same day mentioned in verse 2, and is the day of the Lord.

    But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
    Paul is saying that the day of the Lord will catch the unbeliever like a thief in the night, but the believer will not be surprised by His sudden appearing. They will both be here, but we should be ready for Him! Again, this is reinforced by 2 Thessalonians chapter 1.

    22:44 he uses the examples of Noah and Lot to show how we will be taken out before the destruction comes. 2 very important things he forgets to mention:

    1. Both the flood and the destruction of Sodom were God pouring out His wrath, not just tribulation.
    2. Both Noah and Lot were taken out right before the destruction hit.

    These both coincide with 2 Thessalonians chapter 1-"When He comes in that day"

    Their final point around 23:30- Once the church is gone there will be no more people saved from the wrath of God. Not a single scripture available in context to even surmise this theory that they will.












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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Aren't you glad that I actually watch some of the videos you post brother Nikos?

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    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Absolutely, right on target!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Their first error is that they separate the 2nd coming of Christ from the rapture. There is not a single scripture used in its proper context that supports this.

    Next they talk about a 2-stage second coming, with the second part being 7 years after the first part. Again, not a single scripture to support this. At about 3:10-3:15 he tramples all over 2 Thessalonians 1:10. If the church is raptured before the actual coming of the Lord, then WHO is He going to be admired by and glorified in?

    At 3:51 Revelation 1:7 & Matthew 24:30-31 are violated. And Matthew 29 says that this event is after the tribulation.

    At around 8:20 they make the assumption that tribulation and the wrath of God are one and the same. Scripture does not reconcile the two. Jesus told His disciples "In this world you WILL have tribulation".

    At around 8:28 he violates Revelation 3:10 and makes it fit into his theory rather than accepting it as plainly written, a letter to the church at Philadelphia.

    Now he is talking about a "T" Tribulation -vs- a "t" tribulation. How many dead Christians does it take to constitute a "T" Tribulation? Millions were killed during the first couple hundred years of demon-inspired islam.

    Around 10:24 they talk about Revelation 15 and how "the wrath of God is complete".

    However, this still does not dispute that we go up as He comes down to take vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    At 12:12--Please tell the millions of Christians who were beheaded for their faith at the hands of islam, the Christians who were used for torches and fed to the lions by the Romans, the Chinese Christians tortured for their faith, etc. that "they are going to be taken out before all this happens".

    Around 14:40 he claims that the pre-trib rapture teaching is a "Re-awakening of what Jesus and the apostles taught". However, when we scour through the written teachings of Jesus and the apostles, there is no pre-trib rapture doctrine taught. The pre-trib rapture doctrine is a "THEORY", not a fact. It cannot be proven without taking scripture out of context and making it fit into the preconceived mold of a pre-tribulation rapture.


    Around 14:51 he claims that this THEORY comes from a "Literal interpretation of the scriptures".

    But if it were "literal" why do we have to patch it together with scriptures taken out of context? Could you please produce a single scripture IN CONTEXT which states that the RAPTURE and the SECOND COMING are 2 separate happenings and that the rapture will happen before the tribulation?

    World history shows that the tribulation started a long time ago.

    16:58 shows a glimmer of truth: "and PEOPLE began to develop the idea of the rapture".

    Scripture plainly teaches what is and what isn't NT church doctrine. It doesn't need to be developed by people.

    Around 19:56 they start talking about Jesus' comment about coming as a thief. What they ignore is that Jesus repeats this statement right between the 6th and 7th bowl judgments. So do you think He is coming at that point or before the first bowl is poured out?

    At 19:15 he talks about 1 Thessalonians 5 but skips over a very important part of this passage: "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief."

    Read the passage for yourself and then notice that "this day" is the same day mentioned in verse 2, and is the day of the Lord.



    Paul is saying that the day of the Lord will catch the unbeliever like a thief in the night, but the believer will not be surprised by His sudden appearing. They will both be here, but we should be ready for Him! Again, this is reinforced by 2 Thessalonians chapter 1.

    22:44 he uses the examples of Noah and Lot to show how we will be taken out before the destruction comes. 2 very important things he forgets to mention:

    1. Both the flood and the destruction of Sodom were God pouring out His wrath, not just tribulation.
    2. Both Noah and Lot were taken out right before the destruction hit.

    These both coincide with 2 Thessalonians chapter 1-"When He comes in that day"

    Their final point around 23:30- Once the church is gone there will be no more people saved from the wrath of God. Not a single scripture available in context to even surmise this theory that they will.











    Total confusion! But of course, preterism makes no sense.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    World history shows that the tribulation started a long time ago.
    World history? No! We follow the Bible!

    Tribulation is not determined by how many die. Body count is not the defining factor. No! God defines it, and He alone.

    Study the Bible. Put Brown away. I like Dr. Brown, but he is wrong in some areas. Brown has called Word of Faith a heresy. He is fallible. Just a man.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    World history? No! We follow the Bible!

    Tribulation is not determined by how many die. Body count is not the defining factor. No! God defines it, and He alone.

    Study the Bible. Put Brown away. I like Dr. Brown, but he is wrong in some areas. Brown has called Word of Faith a heresy. He is fallible. Just a man.
    That was all bible brother. I wasn't referring to anyone's teaching, just scripture.

    Can you answer any of my questions please? (scripture would be awesome!)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    World history? No! We follow the Bible!

    Tribulation is not determined by how many die. Body count is not the defining factor. No! God defines it, and He alone.

    Study the Bible. Put Brown away. I like Dr. Brown, but he is wrong in some areas. Brown has called Word of Faith a heresy. He is fallible. Just a man.
    When we study our past (HISTORY) we can see many of the future things that Jesus & John described have happened or are happening. The History is simply showing the bible prophecies coming true. When we study the History of Christianity we see the OT prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled.

    True history doesn't override the bible, it confirms the truth of the bible. So yes, we can look at history and see which prophesies have already come to pass.



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