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Thread: Questions about the Rapture

  1. #661
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehilah ba'aretz View Post
    since i am ordained with the assemblies of god, i officially am a pre-tribber. On the other hand, i live in the midst of prophecy being fulfilled in israel and i can see the storm clouds of the gog and magog war. So, in a fit of honesty, i have to admit that i wonder if the first part of the tribulation has already begun.
    My bottom line is that it is necessary to be righteous in the midst of evil times and keep looking at and listening to our beloved messiah.
    I used to read a magazine about Israel but I don't remember the writer. His daughter's name was Sandy. I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HER ON THIS FORUM FOR SOME TIME.

  2. #662
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    In point 9 below the author makes a convoluted effort to tell us how the trumpets were different. That is man made eisegesis since every Trumpet belongs to God who authorizes the angels to sound.
    Rev 8:2 - And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. God gave them trumpets.

    We all agree 1 Thess 4 & 1 Cor 15 are the same event and - God calls the rapture/resurrection trumpet the LAST trumpet.
    Why the spin to now declare this isn't the last trumpet? Last means LAST. God says not to ADD to his Word yet the author does this to justify his position.

    Since God calls the rapture/resurrection trumpet the LAST trumpet - can anyone tell me what were the preceding trumpets before this last trumpet???????
    There has to be PRECEDING trumpets for it to be called the LAST - Unbiased biblical reading will see that the preceding trumpets were the 6 Trumpets of Revelation.


    Jesus explains it perfectly below - what is the trumpet in v31 it correlates perfectly with 1 Th 4:16 - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,
    with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.





    9. The Trumpets of 1 Thessalonians & 1 Corinthians are NOT the same as in Revelation.


    There are those who point to the trumpet sounding in 1 Thess 4:16 and say. 'see, this is the 7th trumpet judgment in Revelation.' So they falsely conclude that the Church MUST go through the Great Tribulation. It's also compared to 1 Corinthians 15:52 Is this the 7th Trumpet in Revelation so that the church will go through at least some of the Great Tribulation?
    FIRST: The trumpet at the rapture is called the "Trump of God".
    BUT The 7th trumpet in Revelation, the trump an angel!
    Revelation 11:15 (NKJV) "Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
    SECONDLY: The trumpet at the rapture announces an event that happens in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye.
    BUT The 7th trumpet in Rev will cover a period of days.
    Revelation 10:7 (NKJV) "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets."
    FINALLY: The trumpet at the rapture is one of glory & majesty & wonderful changes taking place. We will see & be with the Lord!
    BUT The 7th trumpet in Rev. is one of woe and destruction.
    Revelation 11:14–15 (NKJV) "The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
    Completely different trumpets for sure!

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  4. #663
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I used to read a magazine about Israel but I don't remember the writer. His daughter's name was Sandy. I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HER ON THIS FORUM FOR SOME TIME.
    Sandy got tired of the bad behavior of some members. She is still a member if she ever decides to drop in. The Magazine mentioned above was the Jerusalem Courier. It was published by Sandy's father and since he has graduated to Heaven the paper has ceased to function. A great alternative is, "Dispatch from Jerusalem" by Bridges For Peace and Sandy's sister, Becky is the editor.

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    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Antichrist, Elect, Saints.

    Many in the pre-tribulation rapture camp will argue that the "elect" (Mt 24:22), that Jesus mentioned in His Olivet Discourse is a reference to Israel.

    I disagree.

    It is my understanding that the "elect" who will go through Antichrist's persecution in the 42 months, or 1260 days (Rev 11-13) of great tribulation is none other than the true bond-servants of Christ within the church in general.

    The word translated "elect" (eklektos) in the Discourse (v.22), is most commonly used to refer to genuine Christians---individually or as a community---chosen before the foundation of the world. The word refers to the true bond-servants of Christ. I don't think Jesus meant for it to be understood any differently than being a true disciple of His.

    In a parallel passage found over in Revelation, referring to the same time of intense tribulation, those persecuted by Antichrist are called "the saints" rather than "the elect."

    And it was given to him Antichrist, to make war with the saints and to overcome them (Rev 13:7).

    John is referring to a group of men and women, "who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus," whom Satan attempts to destroy after God has thwarted his efforts to destroy "the woman"---Israel (Rev 12:13-17).
    Obviously from the context, "the elect and "the saints" are one and the same and are clearly someone other than Israel, whom John refers to simply as "the woman."

    Thus, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, we see that the Olivet Discourse refers to those persecuted as the elect of God, whereas the book of Revelation refers them simply as the saints. And, as with "elect," the underlying Greek word hagios, translated "saints" or "holy" can, like the word eklektos, refer to genuine bond-servants of Christ within the church.

    It is my opinion as to why the term "church" is not used in these two critical passages when faced with tribulation associated with Antichrist, is because it will not be the church in general that "endures" to the end, instead, it will be the genuine bond-servants of Christ, His elect or saints who will prefer to endure the wrath of Satan rather than the wrath of God.

    The pre-tribulationist preaches they will escape this end-time misery, turmoil, and hardship upon the earth.

    The truth is many will escape this terrible time of persecution within the professing church because they will "fall away." Their love for Christ will grow cold as they choose to follow Antichrist rather then die for the Lord Jesus Christ through martyrdom.

    It will be the church in general that will fall into apostasy and denial of our Lord in the last days. One reason is that perhaps when many professing Christians who have held on to the belief that they would be "taken out" before Antichrist's rule but find themselves still here, will be left in a state of shock and will simply give up and give in rather than deal with extreme hardship and suffering, refusing to remain faithful to Jesus. It will be the elect of God, the saints, who will endure Antichrist's persecution. That is precisely why terms such as "the elect" and "the saints" are used instead of the word church to describe the faithful who will choose death over compromise.

    And the dragon was enraged with the woman (Israel), and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring (the elect and the saints one and the same), who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:17).

    Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before Men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven (Matt 10:32-33).

    He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels (Rev 3:5).

    And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming (1 Jn 2:28).

    Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done (Rev 22:12).
    Last edited by Smitty; 12-23-2022 at 06:11 PM.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  9. #666
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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