Thread: Questions about the Rapture

Originally Posted by Nikos

Brother, I would suggest you put away your video's by Brown and just study the Word alone. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher.

In 6:9-11 we discover that there will be martyrs in the tribulation. Since Christians will be raptured at the beginning of the tribulation, these are people who became Christians during the tribulation.

Revelation 7:9-17 reveals that many Christians will be martyred in that period of time.

In 7:14, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

You are not thinking this through brother Nikos. Once the church is gone there will be no more people saved. We are Christ's agent for salvation on the earth today.

I know that is what Tim LaHaye teaches, but please put down your LEFT BEHIND books and read the bible.

In Revelation 6:9-11 we see that there are many who were and will be martyred for the Word. But John also says in verse 11 that there will be more before God judges and avenges their blood on "those who dwell on the earth".

Revelation 7:9-17 shows that there will be many along the way who get saved, since the days of the birth of the church and the beginning of the Great Tribulation that Jesus announced in Matthew 24.

Maybe you should look at how many million Christians have already died for the Word around the world. The Voice of the Martyrs

Revelation 7:14 refers to those who have been saved from the days Jesus described in Matthew 24, right up until now and continuing.


I have a serious question for you Nikos. Was Jesus mad/crazy/out of his mind or lying when He spoke the following:

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

Who was Jesus talking to in that passage Nikos? He was talking to His disciples. He told them that they would be delivered up to tribulation and killed. He wasn't speaking to a future church event, He was telling them what was going to happen to them. A study of history shows that He was spot on. The apostles were delivered up to tribulation and martyred. Fox's Book of Martyrs - Read Online

Peter
Among many other saints, the blessed apostle Peter was condemned to death, and crucified, as some do write, at Rome; albeit some others, and not without cause, do doubt thereof. Hegesippus saith that Nero sought matter against Peter to put him to death; which, when the people perceived, they entreated Peter with much ado that he would fly the city. Peter, through their importunity at length persuaded, prepared himself to avoid. But, coming to the gate, he saw the Lord Christ come to meet him, to whom he, worshipping, said, "Lord, whither dost Thou go?" To whom He answered and said, "I am come again to be crucified." By this, Peter, perceiving his suffering to be understood, returned into the city. Jerome saith that he was crucified, his head being down and his feet upward, himself so requiring, because he was (he said) unworthy to be crucified after the same form and manner as the Lord was.

Jude
The brother of James, was commonly called Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa, A.D. 72.

Thomas
Called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where exciting the rage of the pagan priests, he was martyred by being thrust through with a spear.

Luke
The evangelist, was the author of the Gospel which goes under his name. He traveled with Paul through various countries, and is supposed to have been hanged on an olive tree, by the idolatrous priests of Greece.

Bartholomew
Preached in several countries, and having translated the Gospel of Matthew into the language of India, he propagated it in that country. He was at length cruelly beaten and then crucified by the impatient idolaters.

Simon
Surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain, in which latter country he was crucified, A.D. 74.

Philip
Was born at Bethsaida, in Galilee and was first called by the name of "disciple." He labored diligently in Upper Asia, and suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified, A.D. 54.

Matthias
Of whom less is known than of most of the other disciples, was elected to fill the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.

Andrew
Was the brother of Peter. He preached the gospel to many Asiatic nations; but on his arrival at Edessa he was taken and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground. Hence the derivation of the term, St. Andrew's Cross.

St. Mark
Was born of Jewish parents of the tribe of Levi. He is supposed to have been converted to Christianity by Peter, whom he served as an amanuensis, and under whose inspection he wrote his Gospel in the Greek language. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria, at the great solemnity of Serapis their idol, ending his life under their merciless hands.

Great Tribulation-


This was the occasion of the first persecution; and the barbarities exercised on the Christians were such as even excited the commiseration of the Romans themselves. Nero even refined upon cruelty, and contrived all manner of punishments for the Christians that the most infernal imagination could design. In particular, he had some sewed up in skins of wild beasts, and then worried by dogs until they expired; and others dressed in shirts made stiff with wax, fixed to axletrees, and set on fire in his gardens, in order to illuminate them. This persecution was general throughout the whole Roman Empire; but it rather increased than diminished the spirit of Christianity. In the course of it, St. Paul and St. Peter were martyred.
The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67 - Fox's Book of Martyrs


Among the numerous martyrs that suffered during this persecution was Simeon, bishop of Jerusalem, who was crucified; and St. John, who was boiled in oil, and afterward banished to Patmos. Flavia, the daughter of a Roman senator, was likewise banished to Pontus; and a law was made, "That no Christian, once brought before the tribunal, should be exempted from punishment without renouncing his religion." A variety of fabricated tales were, during this reign, composed in order to injure the Christians. Such was the infatuation of the pagans, that, if famine, pestilence, or earthquakes afflicted any of the Roman provinces, it was laid upon the Christians.
The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, A.D. 81 - Fox's Book of Martyrs


In the third persecution Pliny the Second, a man learned and famous, seeing the lamentable slaughter of Christians, and moved therewith to pity, wrote to Trajan, certifying him that there were many thousands of them daily put to death, of which none did any thing contrary to the Roman laws worthy of persecution.
The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, A.D. 108 - Fox's Book of Martyrs


The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162
Marcus Aurelius, followed about the year of our Lord 161, a man of nature more stern and severe; and, although in study of philosophy and in civil government no less commendable, yet, toward the Christians sharp and fierce; by whom was moved the fourth persecution.
The cruelties used in this persecution were such that many of the spectators shuddered with horror at the sight, and were astonished at the intrepidity of the sufferers. Some of the martyrs were obliged to pass, with their already wounded feet, over thorns, nails, sharp shells, etc. upon their points, others were scourged until their sinews and veins lay bare, and after suffering the most excruciating tortures that could be devised, they were destroyed by the most terrible deaths.
The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162 - Fox's Book of Martyrs


The persecutions now extending to Africa, many were martyred in that quarter of the globe; the most particular of whom we shall mention.
Perpetua, a married lady, of about twenty-two years. Those who suffered with her were, Felicitas, a married lady, big with child at the time of her being apprehended, and Revocatus, catechumen of Carthage, and a slave. The names of the other prisoners, destined to suffer upon this occasion, were Saturninus, Secundulus, and Satur. On the day appointed for their execution, they were led to the amphitheater. Satur, Saturninus, and Revocatus were ordered to run the gauntlet between the hunters, or such as had the care of the wild beasts. The hunters being drawn up in two ranks, they ran between, and were severely lashed as they passed. Felicitas and Perpetua were stripped, in order to be thrown to a mad bull, which made his first attack upon Perpetua, and stunned her; he then darted at Felicitas, and gored her dreadfully; but not killing them, the executioner did that office with a sword. Revocatus and Satur were destroyed by wild beasts; Saturninus was beheaded; and Secundulus died in prison. These executions were in the 205, on the eighth day of March.
The Fifth Persecution, Commencing with Severus, A.D. 192 - Fox's Book of Martyrs



https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...s-a-d-235.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...s-a-d-249.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...n-a-d-257.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...n-a-d-274.html

https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...n-a-d-303.html


And there is so much more historical data for anyone interested in watching it all unfold.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/hist...n-a-d-303.html


These are the things Jesus was warning them about.

Originally Posted by Nikos

You say we are in the trib now. Then you say no one gets saved during the tribulation.

CONCLUSION: (the gospel according to you) NO ONE CAN GET SAVED TODAY BECAUSE THIS IS THE TRIBULATION.

What! I think Brown has messed you up royally!

note: I have never read any book by LaHay.
.........I recommend the Word of God. Try it you just might like it!

No brother Nikos. I am saying that in your version of the pre-trib rapture theory there would be no church so no one could get saved. Please re-read Matthew 24 and then study the actual recorded history in my posts above. The greatest tribulation since the beginning of the creation or ever to be, started way back then. It goes in phases and is ongoing. And THE CHURCH IS STILL HERE. We are the reason that there are still people being saved, in spite of tribulation. Look at how many were saved because of the martyrs.

Originally Posted by Nikos

You say we are in the trib now. Then you say no one gets saved during the tribulation.

CONCLUSION: (the gospel according to you) NO ONE CAN GET SAVED TODAY BECAUSE THIS IS THE TRIBULATION.

What! I think Brown has messed you up royally!

note: I have never read any book by LaHay.
.........I recommend the Word of God. Try it you just might like it!

I do appreciate that you are actually dialoging about the topic instead of just posting videos of pre-trib rapture theory teachers.

Originally Posted by Nikos

You underestimate the MIGHTY POWER OF GOD! When GOD pours out His wrath during the tribulation, it will not compare to the evil works of men down through history.

We are not appointed to the wrath of God brother Nikos. The tribulation which Jesus described and said was soon starting in Matthew 24 is all from satan and his minions.