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Thread: PreTrib: Myth or Reality?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Pastor Smoke, it is clear that you are a preterist. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse (Mathew 24) had come to pass by AD 70. It is clear that you have made up your mind.
    I wouldn't call my view "preterist" I would call it "Taking a serious look at the bible compared to world history".

    The fact remains that Jesus said that the happenings of 70 A.D. were the beginning of "Great tribulation, such as has never been or never will be."

    Jesus perfectly describes/prophesies what was going to happen to Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Even the "abomination of desolation" happened before the temple was destroyed.

    And then you have John's writings:
    1 John 4:2-3(NKJV)

    2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
    Islam says "God had no son"
    Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).

    Allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).

    Jews say that Ezra is the son of Allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. May Allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides Allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).
    Islam is powered by the spirit of the anti-Christ.


    Jesus Christ is coming for His bride. On that same day (according to scripture) He will deal out vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


  2. #12
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Sir, I am an historian to some degree. I taught college history for 25 years.
    Then you are aware of the world history events shown in the video I posted?

  3. #13
    So then is the great trib. still going on after 2,000 years rather than being of 7 years duration?

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  5. #14
    One of the keys to end-time prophecy is being aware of, and rightly-dividing according to, the three different groups of people that are on this earth as God sees them and divides them and deals with them.


    The Jews, The Nations
    and The Church.


    I Corinthians 10:32
    Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles (the Nations), nor to the church of God:



    It's like Brother Hagin used to say about how people try to take all of the rules governing the different types of prayer into one bag, shake them up and pour them all out on the table.









    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  6. #15
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    So then is the great trib. still going on after 2,000 years rather than being of 7 years duration?
    That's where my studies have led me. John had to have seen 270 Million people being slaughtered, not to mention all the plagues, famine and pestilence that took place during the dark ages.

    60 Million Christians dying for their faith in a short period of time? That had to be part of his vision too.

    The part of the video that talks about Asia Minor? That history is what Jesus was warning them of in Revelation 2 & 3.

    We need to be watching for Jesus, not the anti-Christ, and not the rebuilding of the Jewish temple again as it is taught in pre-trib teaching.


  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post



    .... not the anti-Christ, and not the rebuilding of the Jewish temple again as it is taught in pre-trib teaching.

    For the record, I've never heard it taught that we should look for either of those of things.

    I never got into all of the movie hyped-up stuff, seeing as they were riddled with - well let's just say, that they were more about popularizing it or scaring people.

    The rebuilding of the Temple will not be completed until after the Pre-Trib Catching Away of the Church.







    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  9. #17
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    For the record, I've never heard it taught that we should look for either of those of things.

    I never got into all of the movie hyped-up stuff, seeing as they were riddled with - well let's just say, that they were more about popularizing it or scaring people.

    The rebuilding of the Temple will not be completed until after the Pre-Trib Catching Away of the Church.







    .
    I appreciate your viewpoint GIMJ. However, if the church is to be raptured BEFORE the tribulation (pre-trib rapture theory), then we missed it.

    We are "Tribulation Saints" because according to Jesus the "Great Tribulation" started around 70 A.D.



    Matthew 24:21 (NKJV)

    21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mark 13:19 (NKJV)

    19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.
    Here is a theory (which is all these tribulation teachings are) that I am proposing: (If you watched the video I posted on islam this may make sense to you)

    In Revelation 6 the first horse is Christ, the church and the spread of Christianity.

    The next 4 horses are the birth and spread of islam and the early results of that period.

    Revelation 6 New King James Version (NKJV)
    First Seal:

    6 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.


    Second Seal:

    3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.


    Third Seal:

    5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a [e]denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”


    Fourth Seal:

    7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.


    Fifth Seal:

    9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
    The 6th Seal lines up with 2 Thessalonians chapter 1. When He comes, we go.

    In Revelation chapter 7 we see the results of the rapture.

    In Revelation chapter 8 we see the end of the Day of the Lord.

    The 7th Seal is opened, the wrath of God is poured out and the earth and all that is in it melts with a fervent heat.

    Here is the video again about the birth and spread of islam. Think of those first 5 Seals being opened as you watch it.





  10. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    I appreciate your viewpoint GIMJ. However, if the church is to be raptured BEFORE the tribulation (pre-trib rapture theory), then we missed it.

    We are "Tribulation Saints" because according to Jesus the "Great Tribulation" started around 70 A.D. ....


    I don't buy that interpretation at all.

    Don't have time or energy to rebut, but strongly disagree.



    GIMJ out.





    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  11. #19
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    I don't buy that interpretation at all.

    Don't have time or energy to rebut, but strongly disagree.



    GIMJ out.





    .
    So you don't think Jesus taught that the start of the great tribulation was when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed?

  12. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    So you don't think Jesus taught that the start of the great tribulation was when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed?
    I dont either. We are not in the GREAT tribulation. Are you going Preterist on us?

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