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Thread: The Great Pre-Trib Rapture Deception

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Ez33, didn't you look at preterism a couple of years ago?
    I looked at every view, and then compared them with scripture. The reason I was examining every other explanation in the first place was because the pre-trib teaching never did set right in my spirit.

    I have come to believe that part of Matthew 24 happened in AD70, and the rest is yet to come. Tribulation has been happening since the birth of the church.

    I believe that what the Romans did to Christians (burned and tortured for their faith in Christ), the birth and spread of islam (beheaded and tortured for their faith in Christ), the holocaust and what we are witnessing in the world today are all somehow described in the book of Revelation, if we only had eyes to see what John was describing in actuality.


    I believe that the 7 seals, the 7 bowls and the 7 trumpets are different descriptions of the same things. This is because I believe that each one shows a major clue between the 6th and 7th judgements. Between the 6th and 7th judgements we see:

    1. A multitude in heaven which no man can number.

    2. The "Mystery of God" (the church) finished.

    3. Jesus saying again that He is "coming as a thief" (see also 1 Thess 5:2-4, 2 Peter 3:10, Revelation 3:3.)


    Those 3 clues definitely show that we will go through the great tribulation and then be raptured before the 7th judgment is poured out and the whole earth melts with a fervent heat. (Real global warming).

    I also believe that scripture shows us that we have a part/influence as to when He comes for us-
    Revelation 19:6-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

    6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I used to be mid-trib because that was what my Father taught me. Then I made a study of the various views for myself and I saw clearly that the only view that was biblically accurate was pre-trib. Since I believe the Bible, I now hold to this view. If you want to go through the wrath of God, then it is your choice. For me, I am going to be with the Lord in the Rapture of the Saints. See you--sooner or later. Bye, bye!!
    What your father taught you is what happens when you read the scriptures in CONTEXT. The ONLY way you can concoct the pre-trib doctrine is to treat the scriptures as a buffet, take the scriptures out of their proper context and place them together in the framework of a pre-conceived idea that you would like to reinforce with scripture.
    pre·con·ceived
    /ˌprēkənˈsēvd/

    adjective

    1. (of an idea or opinion) formed before having the evidence for its truth or usefulness: "the same set of facts can be tailored to fit any preconceived belief"

  3. #23
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    I have come to believe that part of Matthew 24 happened in AD70, and the rest is yet to come. Tribulation has been happening since the birth of the church.
    That's one interpretation that I can see as completely plausible for that passage. Not sure about all the rest of Preterism, but I could see that as being the case for Matt. 24 not being about the tribulation.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    That's one interpretation that I can see as completely plausible for that passage. Not sure about all the rest of Preterism, but I could see that as being the case for Matt. 24 not being about the tribulation.
    Yeah, it is the only thing that I seen worth taking from their doctrine. They asked Jesus 2 or 3 different things :

    “Tell us, when will these things be?

    And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
    "These things" refers to the destruction of the temple in AD70.

    The other part of the question is "What will be thee sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?" I believe that scripture clearly shows that this will be one and the same event.

    2 Thessalonians chapter 1 is pretty strong evidence.

    1 Corinthians 15 is pretty strong evidence, especially verses 50-52: "50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

    How many trumpets will sound after the last one?




  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    I looked at every view, and then compared them with scripture. The reason I was examining every other explanation in the first place was because the pre-trib teaching never did set right in my spirit. ..........
    Thanks!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Yeah, it is the only thing that I seen worth taking from their doctrine. They asked Jesus 2 or 3 different things :

    "These things" refers to the destruction of the temple in AD70.

    The other part of the question is "What will be thee sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?" I believe that scripture clearly shows that this will be one and the same event.

    2 Thessalonians chapter 1 is pretty strong evidence.

    1 Corinthians 15 is pretty strong evidence, especially verses 50-52: "50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

    How many trumpets will sound after the last one?



    You can see that the interpretation of Matt. 24 is directly affected by one believing in a pre-trib rapture.

  7. #27
    Good book on Pre-Trib

    Another Look at the Rapture
    by Roy H. Hicks, D.D.
    1982

    Foreword
    Acknowledgments
    Introduction
    1 Something Has To Happen Soon......................................13
    2 Paul's Special Revelation of the Rapture..........................21
    3 Rapture and Resurrection...................................... ............31
    4 2 Thessalonians 2................................................. ................39
    5 The Church Will Not Be Surprised...................................53
    6 Confusion Surrounding Matthew 24................................63
    7 The Book of Revelation........................................ ...............73
    8 As The Lightning .................................................. ..............85
    9 America In Prophecy.......................................... ................93
    10 Believing For Our Loved Ones......................................101
    Summary



    From the Summary...


    ....Some people, arguing against the hope of the Rapture, believe that because the Church has not always taught and emphasized this truth, it is only a "Johnny-come-lately" doctrine. It has even been hinted that this is an American theological dream.

    The doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and the Rapture of the living has always been believed and written about. It was not emphasized for many centuries, and rightly so, because the Church then was hundreds of years away from the time it would happen. Also, then, as now, there was confusion between the Rapture and the Second Coming of our Lord. In the Rapture we rise to meet Him; in the Second Coming He comes to the earth to rule and to reign.

    In regard to this great truth of the Rapture not being emphasized in certain periods of Church history, we must acknowledge that other great truths were also submerged at times. Justification by faith, baptism of the Holy Spirit, glossalalia, and divine healing in the Atonement were hidden from view during some periods of history. It is only right and proper for the Holy Spirit to greatly emphasize this great truth now because of the imminence of events leading up to a catastrophic climax.....


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryqze7rvxs...Hicks.pdf?dl=0












    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  9. #28
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Roy Hicks spoke at Rhema when I attended. Him and Bro. Hagin were good friends. I remember he had just come out with a book called, "Instrument Rated Christians".

    I also remember that was when the book "Angels On Assignment" was out by Roland Buck. He said he and Hagin's advice on that book was, "Read it, enjoy it, forget about it."

    I also remember Hagin talking about how Buck named names of angels and Hagin said that wasn't scriptural or something along those lines because the Bible doesn't give us any more names than are in there. Then many years later I remember telling the name of an angel that visited him that wasn't named in the Bible. :)

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  11. #29
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    Good book on Pre-Trib

    Another Look at the Rapture
    by Roy H. Hicks, D.D.
    1982

    Foreword
    Acknowledgments
    Introduction
    1 Something Has To Happen Soon......................................13
    2 Paul's Special Revelation of the Rapture..........................21
    3 Rapture and Resurrection...................................... ............31
    4 2 Thessalonians 2................................................. ................39
    5 The Church Will Not Be Surprised...................................53
    6 Confusion Surrounding Matthew 24................................63
    7 The Book of Revelation........................................ ...............73
    8 As The Lightning .................................................. ..............85
    9 America In Prophecy.......................................... ................93
    10 Believing For Our Loved Ones......................................101
    Summary



    From the Summary...


    ....Some people, arguing against the hope of the Rapture, believe that because the Church has not always taught and emphasized this truth, it is only a "Johnny-come-lately" doctrine. It has even been hinted that this is an American theological dream.

    The doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and the Rapture of the living has always been believed and written about. It was not emphasized for many centuries, and rightly so, because the Church then was hundreds of years away from the time it would happen. Also, then, as now, there was confusion between the Rapture and the Second Coming of our Lord. In the Rapture we rise to meet Him; in the Second Coming He comes to the earth to rule and to reign.

    In regard to this great truth of the Rapture not being emphasized in certain periods of Church history, we must acknowledge that other great truths were also submerged at times. Justification by faith, baptism of the Holy Spirit, glossalalia, and divine healing in the Atonement were hidden from view during some periods of history. It is only right and proper for the Holy Spirit to greatly emphasize this great truth now because of the imminence of events leading up to a catastrophic climax.....


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryqze7rvxs...Hicks.pdf?dl=0


    .
    I only perused the chapter on Matt. 24, but if I read it correctly it seems he thinks Matt. 24 was referring to the Jews in their own time too. Not the church.

  12. #30
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    Good book on Pre-Trib

    Another Look at the Rapture
    by Roy H. Hicks, D.D.
    1982

    Foreword
    Acknowledgments
    Introduction
    1 Something Has To Happen Soon......................................13
    2 Paul's Special Revelation of the Rapture..........................21
    3 Rapture and Resurrection...................................... ............31
    4 2 Thessalonians 2................................................. ................39
    5 The Church Will Not Be Surprised...................................53
    6 Confusion Surrounding Matthew 24................................63
    7 The Book of Revelation........................................ ...............73
    8 As The Lightning .................................................. ..............85
    9 America In Prophecy.......................................... ................93
    10 Believing For Our Loved Ones......................................101
    Summary



    From the Summary...


    ....Some people, arguing against the hope of the Rapture, believe that because the Church has not always taught and emphasized this truth, it is only a "Johnny-come-lately" doctrine. It has even been hinted that this is an American theological dream.

    The doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and the Rapture of the living has always been believed and written about. It was not emphasized for many centuries, and rightly so, because the Church then was hundreds of years away from the time it would happen. Also, then, as now, there was confusion between the Rapture and the Second Coming of our Lord. In the Rapture we rise to meet Him; in the Second Coming He comes to the earth to rule and to reign.

    In regard to this great truth of the Rapture not being emphasized in certain periods of Church history, we must acknowledge that other great truths were also submerged at times. Justification by faith, baptism of the Holy Spirit, glossalalia, and divine healing in the Atonement were hidden from view during some periods of history. It is only right and proper for the Holy Spirit to greatly emphasize this great truth now because of the imminence of events leading up to a catastrophic climax.....


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryqze7rvxs...Hicks.pdf?dl=0












    .
    Thanks for the info on Dr. Hicks book. I will order it today.

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