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Thread: Rev 9:1-12

  1. #11
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Smitty, if you are not going to respond to us about the things you have already posted, why should be keep reading what you post?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Dear brother, I'm a truck driver and am often on the road and don't always get a chance to check in daily with the forum. Please forgive me if you felt neglected with a response. I was not ignoring you. Sometimes, due to my schedule, things go beyond what I'm am able to control. My apologies.

    I held the pre-tribulation rapture view for close to 20 years. I have left that view and tend to lean more on the pre-wrath, post tribulation view. I'm sure we can all agree that we are living in the last days. Regardless of when our Lord returns, I'm sure all of us want to be found in the company of the 5 virgins who did not run out of oil. Besides that, I want to be ready to meet Jesus if I were to be killed in tomorrow. Death takes no holiday and happens unexpectedly. I too have retirement plans when I leave the work force in 4 years. In any case, prepare spiritually first, then physically second. If the Lord returns in my life time, wonderful. If not, wonderful. Either way, being caught up in the resurrection, or going by the way of death, I'm ready to meet the Lord.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    The descriptive characteristics of horses, chariots, lions, men, and scorpions seem to demonstrate that the locusts may not be literal, but symbolic, but nonetheless real because of their figurative character. Some scholars believe the angel of the abyss is a being other than Satan, while another group agree that they are one and the same being.


    The "Dispensational Interpretation" view is that the 144,000 Jewish remnant who have the seal of God upon their foreheads are protected or exempt from the 5 month torment inflicted upon the human race by the demon creatures.

    I tend to shy away from the dispensation view or a pre-trib rapture. If the above future events are literally going to occur, and we are here in the midst of this onslaught of horror being exhibited; Ephesians 1:13 says, "we are sealed in Him" meaning that we would not be tormented by the demonic locusts creature stings, but would witness this hell being unleashed on the unsaved.
    Good reply! Now, how about dealing with the issues you are opening. I have choosen one at random to get that started.
    Why do you think that the 144,000 Jewish remnant needs to be interpreted as non-literal?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Good reply! Now, how about dealing with the issues you are opening. I have choosen one at random to get that started.
    Why do you think that the 144,000 Jewish remnant needs to be interpreted as non-literal?
    The number is a bit too even to represent an actual group of people rather than something symbolic : 12 x 12 x 1,000

    Twelve is the number of the tribes of Israel

  5. #15
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Some groups interpret the 144,000 to represent the church which is false and that the church has somehow replaced Israel. Of coarse, this is total nonsense!
    Nor do I adhere to the JW's claim that the 144,000 are the only persons who will be allowed to enter heaven. More nonsense!
    The 144,000 are a literal number of Jew's (Rev 7:4) whose assignment is a future event to be played out as the book of Revelation becomes a living reality.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Hey! We agree! Since I live in Israel and I know quite a few Jewish men that I hope God tags in the group we know as the 144,000 I find myself wondering how God will choose. Virgins or untainted by sexual sin? Young men? Orthodox Jewish, secular or messianic? (There are only probably less than 5,000 messianic men that could qualify living in Israel at this time. Maybe triple that worldwide.)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehilah Ba'Aretz View Post
    Hey! We agree! Since I live in Israel and I know quite a few Jewish men that I hope God tags in the group we know as the 144,000 I find myself wondering how God will choose. Virgins or untainted by sexual sin? Young men? Orthodox Jewish, secular or messianic? (There are only probably less than 5,000 messianic men that could qualify living in Israel at this time. Maybe triple that worldwide.)
    Yes, we do!

    God chooses people according to His pre-determined plan and foreknowledge of earthly events yet to occur (Acts 2:23).
    An example is Gods choice of Abraham and, through Abraham, to His choice of Israel to be His people.
    From this people He produced one man, Jesus the Messiah, chosen by Him before the foundation of the world to be Savior of the world (1 Peter 1:20).

    Gods activity in determining beforehand what will happen, particularly in relation to peoples destiny, (in this case the 144,000) is sometimes called predestination.
    This predestination originates in God Himself, who acts according to His own will and purpose (Eph 1:5).

    So, we can conclude that God's knowledge of the entire history of the universe is foreknowledge. God's foreknowledge is according to His plan, which means that it is often the same as His pre-determined will (Rom 8:29).

    God's select pick of who the 144,000 Jewish men are, were determined by God before they were born (Psalm 139:13-16).
    If indeed we are the final generation that will see the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, we can assume that these men are alive today.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    The 7 Bowls (or vials) poured out upon the earth in the great tribulation as recorded in Revelation chapter 16 are defined below.

    1. Bowl One (Rev 16:2) Incurable skin sores.

    2. Bowl Two (Rev 16:3) Death of all sea creatures.

    3. Bowl Three (Rev 16:4-7) Fresh water turns to blood.

    4. Bowl Four (Rev 16:8-9) Humans scorched with great heat.

    5. Bowl Five (Rev 16:10-11) Worldwide darkness.

    6. Bowl six (Rev 16:12-16) Armageddon anticipated.

    7. Bowl seven (Rev 16:17-21) The Day of the Lord.

    Again, we notice the plagues in this chapter resemble some of those that were recorded in Egypt, and also are reminiscent of some of the previous trumpet judgments.
    The loud voice from the temple that orders the seven angels to inflict the impending punishments on a defiant and ungodly world is no doubt the voice of God.
    This will be His fearful final outpouring of His wrath on all nature and man. I notice that the increased intensity and range of the plagues are the visitations of God's dealings in judgment upon wicked men.

    In previous judgments one could see that the inflictions touched a 1/3 part of the earth and the areas were limited. But no such restriction is recorded concerning the bowl judgments. There is an unmistakable finality about their delivery. The pouring out indicates an overflowing measure without restraint. All avenues of grace offered from a loving God has seemed to have expired.

    The 1st bowl is released upon those who have the mark of the beast. All over the world, worshippers of Antichrist will be afflicted with incurable, open, oozing malignant sores.

    The 2nd bowl released causes all marine life in the worlds oceans to die. The water in the oceans will become thick, dark, and coagulated, like the blood of a corpse.

    The 3rd bowl released causes the rivers and fountains of fresh water to become blood. Water, already in short supply because of prolonged drought will now suffer the same fate as the oceans. In addition to suffering from thirst, the worshippers of Antichrist will have no fresh water to wash their sores.

    The 4th bowl released causes the sun to inflict a scorching heat on the wicked. With no fresh water to drink, earth's inhabitants will face extreme and deadly heat. The increased scorching heat of the sun would cause the melting of the polar ice caps. This in turn would raise the level of the earth's oceans by 200 feet, producing chaos for major port cities and producing further catastrophic loss of life.

    The 5th bowl released sends darkness on the Antichrist's empire which extends to all his dominion. Regardless of where the darkness begins, it eventually covers Antichrist's entire kingdom. Engulfed by the darkness, the beast's subjects gnawed their tongues in a futile attempt to alleviate the pain from their sores, the drought, and fierce heat. In all this, they blaspheme the God of heaven.

    The 6th bowl released dries up the great Euphrates river which will allow an innumerable company of armed forces into the Middle East area for the final conflict. This will include the kings of the east which are from the Asiatic lands like China, Japan, and the nations of the far east. Notice the unholy trinity in verse 13, dragon, beast, false prophet, all three are characterized as unclean and corrupt. Just as the 3 unclean spirits that are like frogs that come out of their mouths. Not only are they able to perform lying false wonders (signs) which are designed to deceive, but their impact will be so great that the unclean spirits are able to induce the kings to make the journey in spite of their sores, the intense heat, drought, and darkness. Not only the kings of the east will gather in Israel for the final battle, but the kings of the whole world will assemble for this last great conflict. Simply stated, it is the summoning of all of them to the War of Armageddon, the battle of that great day of God Almighty. It is the great war with God and Christ, and it will end upon Jesus arrival.

    The last bowl is poured out upon the air. This is the domain of Satan as prince of the power of the air. He is cast down to earth upon his complete expulsion from the heavenly spheres. It won't be long now until the devil is chained to the bottomless pit at the completion of the battle of Armageddon. God declares It is Done meaning this bowl will complete God's wrath, the plagues have thus been exhausted. All that remains is God will send a devastating earthquake---the most powerful in earth's history. This powerful earthquake will radically alter earth's geography as every island fled...mountains...not found. Possibly, preparing earth's surface for the coming millennial kingdom. The last verse in this chapter (16) verse 21 indicates huge hailstones will cause unimaginable devastation and death as they blaspheme God in the midst of it.

    In conclusion, three times in this awesome chapter (vss. 9, 11, 21,) it is declared that men reacted to their punishments with blasphemy against God and not with repentance. As the judgments are not corrective (mercy) in effect, they reveal the wickedness and corruption of those undergoing them all the more.

    Is there any question as to whether there will be repentance in hell?
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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