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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #81
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    TB did "genuinely repent" from all that I could tell, and the entire matter was publicly hashed out via videos, with every step of the process detailed. There is no reason whatsoever to even question this, as it was all painstakingly documented years ago. It is the worst sort of bitter cynicism to make these sorts of accusations out of thin air, never giving the benefit of the doubt to people.
    That's the thing. Murderers can repent. Porn stars can repent (just a little fornication and adultery invovled in that). Then they can go on speaking circuits with their testimonies, use their gifts to minister to people ..... which is fine, wonderful, in fact. Because our God saves, delivers and heals. He sets free! He gives us new life! Our sin is covered with His blood.

    A person commits adultery and/or gets divorced and they are considered unfit for ministry for the rest of their lives.

    This simply does not at all add up.

    Yes, God hates divorce because look at the damage every single divorce does.... but neither divorce nor adultery nor murder, nor any other sin disqualifies someone for the rest of their lives if there has been true repentance and a restoration to fellowship with God and man.

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  3. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    In my opinion there are far too many ministers who have acquired an extremely poor reputation with the world and for good reasons (bad teaching, bad behavior, lack of repenting from either). The question is if they belong in the limelight and to which degree by now. The world will always find fault, paint things black, deny and reject and call people liars but there is such a thing as adding fuel to the fire. A good reputation with outsiders isn't an easy thing to restore, the world simply isn't that likely to forgive and forget and especially not those "stupid Christians". It's just a fact.

    Here's an example from the wikipedia article I linked earlier :

    Following adverse publicity of an impending visit to the United Kingdom, in August 2012, Bentley was made the subject of an exclusion order barring him from entering the country. The UK government's home office stated, 'The government makes no apologies for refusing people access to the UK if we believe they are not conducive to the public good. Coming here is a privilege that we refuse to extend to those who might seek to undermine our society.'[40]
    In December 2012, following the death of Croydon MP Malcolm Wicks, Bentley was criticised in the UK press after remarking that the MP's death was "the Lord's justice" for the role Wicks played in barring Bentley from entering the country


    Though I don't discount the possibility of God killing someone as judgment even in this age of the gospel of grace, there is no way that he is going to do that simply because the person was involved in barring some minister from entering the country. That is ridiculous and tells me (and sadly the world as well) a whole lot about the minister's perception of himself and his own importance. Did he repent from making that statement ? Probably not and that is a huge problem. Even if he had, it would still be a problem because it would be very difficult to undo the impression that such a statement (it could well be seen as murderously vindictive based on very little) creates in a world that isn't quick to forgive and forget to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    1 AoG 2:63, 1962 edition

    Just a guess.

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  5. #83
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I knew you would not step out of the thread. You enjoy a good ole verbal battle like the rest.
    Just following the example laid out by my elders!


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  7. #84
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    I am referring primarily to the ministry gifts of Ephesians. This man claimed gifting for evangelist. I am not referring here to salvation. I am referring to committing the grievous sin of adultery while administering his claimed calling of evangelist. He would have been full of lying and deception to stand before the people and "preach" under the so called "anointing" with his wife in the audience who came crippling down the aisle with a disabled leg and sitting there to hear her husband. What a disgrace and sham. No one here may understand but this is not a matter of Grace but a matter of the severity of sin.
    The real issue is the severity of the sin. That's the crux. Most of us do not disagree about the doctrine of grace, however, you do disagree with me about how bad adultery is. The issue here is not "Can God forgive sinners?" but, "How evil is adultery?"
    Truth is that most of you do not see adultery to be as bad as it really is. Dear friend, it is an evil sin. The day and age in which we live has weakened your understanding of the wicked rottenness of sin. The man committed a terrible sin against his wife and the church and the sheep and God Himself! Yes, God can and does forgive and restore salvation, but he has forfeited his place as an Evangelist in the biblical structure of the Church!!

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  9. #85


    Well, as I said before.....Todd's restoration was literally the most public restoration I've ever seen, and Kudos to Rick Joyner for leaving nothing hidden about it. He put a video camera (literally) on the whole thing, so there would be nothing left to speculate about. He meticulously put everything out there, in great detail, and told WHY he did everything he did. He even talked about what scripture talks about in terms of being qualified or disqualified from ministry, and he did say specifically that Todd would not be an elder, but that he could not find anything in scripture that disqualified him from being an evangelist.

    The outright fabrications and lies being told about this is very slimey.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    That's the thing. Murderers can repent. Porn stars can repent (just a little fornication and adultery invovled in that). Then they can go on speaking circuits with their testimonies, use their gifts to minister to people ..... which is fine, wonderful, in fact. Because our God saves, delivers and heals. He sets free! He gives us new life! Our sin is covered with His blood.

    A person commits adultery and/or gets divorced and they are considered unfit for ministry for the rest of their lives.

    This simply does not at all add up.

    Yes, God hates divorce because look at the damage every single divorce does.... but neither divorce nor adultery nor murder, nor any other sin disqualifies someone for the rest of their lives if there has been true repentance and a restoration to fellowship with God and man.

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  11. #86
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I am referring primarily to the ministry gifts of Ephesians. This man claimed gifting for evangelist. I am not referring here to salvation. I am referring to committing the grievous sin of adultery while administering his claimed calling of evangelist. He would have been full of lying and deception to stand before the people and "preach" under the so called "anointing" with his wife in the audience who came crippling down the aisle with a disabled leg and sitting there to hear her husband. What a disgrace and sham. No one here may understand but this is not a matter of Grace but a matter of the severity of sin.
    The real issue is the severity of the sin. That's the crux. Most of us do not disagree about the doctrine of grace, however, you do disagree with me about how bad adultery is. The issue here is not "Can God forgive sinners?" but, "How evil is adultery?"
    Truth is that most of you do not see adultery to be as bad as it really is. Dear friend, it is an evil sin. The day and age in which we live has weakened your understanding of the wicked rottenness of sin. The man committed a terrible sin against his wife and the church and the sheep and God Himself! Yes, God can and does forgive and restore salvation, but he has forfeited his place as an Evangelist in the biblical structure of the Church!!
    Oh, yes. I most certainly do. It's #7 out of the original 10.

    But Thou shall not commit murder is #6.

    Not honoring one's parents is #5.

    So dishonoring one's parents should be a disqualification from ministry before adultery, yes?

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  13. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post

    He was not a super demonstrative guy.. but he loved the Lord.. and he was barred from being a deacon.

    that's ridiculous.

    Precisely what I was talking about with regard to the scarlet "D" letter, putting a dark cloud over people, even innocent people. It *IS* ridiculous.

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  15. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I am referring primarily to the ministry gifts of Ephesians. This man claimed gifting for evangelist. I am not referring here to salvation. I am referring to committing the grievous sin of adultery while administering his claimed calling of evangelist. He would have been full of lying and deception to stand before the people and "preach" under the so called "anointing" with his wife in the audience who came crippling down the aisle with a disabled leg and sitting there to hear her husband. What a disgrace and sham. No one here may understand but this is not a matter of Grace but a matter of the severity of sin.
    The real issue is the severity of the sin. That's the crux. Most of us do not disagree about the doctrine of grace, however, you do disagree with me about how bad adultery is. The issue here is not "Can God forgive sinners?" but, "How evil is adultery?"
    Truth is that most of you do not see adultery to be as bad as it really is. Dear friend, it is an evil sin. The day and age in which we live has weakened your understanding of the wicked rottenness of sin. The man committed a terrible sin against his wife and the church and the sheep and God Himself! Yes, God can and does forgive and restore salvation, but he has forfeited his place as an Evangelist in the biblical structure of the Church!!
    "severity of the sin"? so something not so bad.. like gossip, or stealing money, or.. .. what? how does one determine what a "severe" sin is?

    I thought all sin was.. well sin.

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  17. #89
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    No need for further discussion, Rick Joyner restored and released Todd, Rick had visions and visitations and all that, so it's legit.

    http://www.morningstarministries.org...ey-restoration

    Warning: many many words

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  19. #90
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I followed the story about Tullian Tchividjian because he was Billy Grahams grandson as I did not know anything about him

    While he was ministering away his wife was having a secret affair and when he found out they entered counselling but the church didn't know. He eventually had an affair from hurt

    This is the latest

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/pa...broken-143982/

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