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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #41
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    A spiritual shell game I suppose.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  3. #42
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Well at least now I understand John's frustration with the other Todd Bentley thread. The allegation there was that he had committed adultery, then repented from the adultery and then he had been restored back to ministry (which I find perfectly okay if that is what really happened). That may be people's impression but that doesn't seem to be the actual truth.

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    This whole thing reminds me of the following verse where Jesus addresses the Samaritan woman :

    John 4:18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband.

    I'm not saying that this is the case every time someone divorces then remarries but it is the case some of the time. Just because the government recognizes someone's new man or woman as their spouse in the formal sense doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  7. #44
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    My concern is more along the lines of "seed produces after its own kind".

    When we evaluate ministry, the character of the minister is indeed relevant, the way AJ presented the original thread asked us to ignore that component. No knock on AJ by the way I don't think she was advocating for immoral ministry.

    What I do see is a hunger for more of God and sometimes in our rush to get to the next destination we run some spiritual red lights. Sometimes there is grace for that, sometimes it leads to horrible wrecks, I was only trying to put forth some biblical rules of the road (so to speak).

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  9. #45
    No need for apologies! I was just thinking of people like Jimmy Swaggert and how he had a process to go through, though he abandoned it, and whatnot. Same with Ted Haggard, and others. The only denomination that doesn't allow divorced people to minister is the SBC that I'm aware of, though that has shifted.

    I think the problem with the, "divorced people can't minister publicly" is that you have people like Charles Stanley who didn't want to divorce his wife, wasn't looking to divorce his wife, and she is the one that left him. The AOG found this to be the case as well. It's like the "zero tolerance policy" in our schools that sweeps up innocent people and punishes them. I think that's why standards have been relaxed.

    Personally, I think that any fallen should have people that will hear God about the restoration process, because it's clear that cookie cutter approaches don't work. I think it also boils down to what one believes about redemption....King David was the worst sort of sinner, though he loved God with all his heart. He blew it badly. Yet what disqualified him from erecting the temple was that he he shed blood in war, not that he was an adulterer or murderer. I don't believe that the restoration process should be shorter or longer than God proposes, that is why it's best to be Spirit-lead about the entire thing (including public ministry). Because there are plenty of divorced people who did NOT want their divorce, who were disqualified simply for having the "D" letter branded on them, and that's a shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Catchy, I apologize for any confusion. Your reply helped me to gather my thought a little better. I wasn't really referring to the restoration process. What I should have addressed was the fact that in some of the denominations they don't allow divorced men to pastor.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  11. #46
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    According to the law of Moses they were allowed to give their wives a divorce paper and send her away. Jesus said that Moses allowed them that because of the hardness of their hearts but the Bible also says that the law is good and holy which means that those who did that weren't sinning. At least not per default. Which means that divorce cannot be a sin per default today either. Just not the ideal option.

    Regarding people who are divorced because their spouse left them, using that (in and of itself) against them in any way is ridiculous.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  13. #47
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    I do have to agree that divorce, remarriage and ministry don't fit into a neat box. I was thinking about Charles Stanley this morning actually, I believe he just stepped down when his divorce became imminent although I really don't think he had to. He held himself out for reconciliation, he wasn't the trucebreaker, the bible says that the one who leaves is the wrongdoer, the one with the hard heart and in fact causes the harmed party to sin. I would not hold divorce against the wronged party.

    Of course, the adulterer in the marriage is the one who left, if the innocent party wishes to finalize that with a legal divorce, it is allowable.

    It's a topic unto itself.

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  15. #48
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    In the case from the law of Moses, the one who was sent away from the household was the one who wasn't at fault, the man who stayed behind was the one who was the divorcer. It is easy to assume today as well that the one who leaves, whether that is the man or the woman, is the one who is behind the divorce. That isn't always the case.

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  17. #49
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    It's not the one who physically leaves, if one chooses to leave the adulterer behind, that is allowable. The vast majority of these things involve a third party, someone found a "greener pasture".

    I know a few Christian men who did the David thing, divorced for a younger, prettier thang, closed their eyes to sin, hollered grace and jumped. It hasn't gone well for them.

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  19. #50
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    It's not the one who physically leaves, if one chooses to leave the adulterer behind, that is allowable. The vast majority of these things involve a third party, someone found a "greener pasture".
    I don't know the statistics but in my parents' case in 1987 neither one had any love interest elsewhere until years after they actually divorced. Their marriage simply broke down. I don't think that is so uncommon. Some people are quick to go looking elsewhere at the point when they think that their marriage is inevitably going down the drain but that is different to when adultery or at least going in the direction of a "new model" as you say, is the initial cause of the divorce.

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