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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Nor does it prosper only if that one man is removed forever.
    One man being removed forever means that man loses, not the Kingdom.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  3. #32
    Which denomination does NOT have a system in place to restore a fallen minister? I'm not sure I understand your point, maybe I missed it? TB went through an extensive restoration process that was actually VERY public, and was out of ministry for over 2 years if I'm not mistaken. Again, I don't really follow TB, and don't really give him any thought, and I do loathe the fact that sin is glossed over and people are never removed from public ministry, or restored, but that is not the case here.

    That said, which denominations are you referring to, that don't have guidelines for a restoration process? Even Jimmy Swaggert was given a specific restoration process, so again (AOG, right?)....maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    If TB had been in a denomination, this wouldn't even be up for discussion. What we are discussing is a Charismatic phenomenon. When a charismatic has a big fall, there is no real accountability system in place to pull credentials. Many just hop back up and carry on as if betraying the person you made vows to before God meant nothing. Not to mention their children.

    As John said, the plan of God does not rise or fail on the shoulders of one man.

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Some charismatics follow a deeper revelation, a man who junks his wife and 3 kids for a newer, sleeker model has the anointing of David.
    Your post made me take a look at the wikipedia article about Todd Bentley who there was a discussion about earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_B...#Divorce_issue

    "Bentley announced his separation from his wife, Shonnah, in August 2008,[1][29] and resigned from the Board of Fresh Fire.[30] A statement released by the remaining Board members said "Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff", and that he would 'refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life'.[31][32]

    Some of Bentley's Christian contemporaries called for Bentley to step down in the wake of the scandal, stating that Christian leadership is incompatible with marital unfaithfulness.[33][34] In response, a committee made up of Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson was formed to oversee the process of spiritually restoring Bentley's family.[35] In November 2008, the Board of Fresh Fire announced that Bentley was not submitting to the process.[36][37] On March 9, 2009, Rick Joyner announced that Bentley had remarried.[2][38][39]

    A 2009 Charisma magazine interview with Rick Joyner refuted adultery claims while characterizing the relationship as wrong and premature. Joyner told Charisma that the new couple was committed to their marriage and would “continue to serve the Lord in the best way that they can.”[37]

    Around 2010, Rick Joyner declared that Bentley was 'restored' and he returned to preaching and leading crusades."


    In other words, Todd Bentley separates from his wife while getting entangled with a new woman, has to step down, is told to participate in a process of restoration, refuses to do so, then remarries, then participates in the process of restoration, then is declared restored, one year later. Still with the new wife in place. He is still married to that new wife, 6 years later.

    For short, he got rid of the old wife, got the new one and keeps the new one. So people, what does this have to do with repentance ? In what manner did he change his ways ?
    Last edited by Colonel; 08-30-2015 at 08:11 AM.

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  7. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    Which denomination does NOT have a system in place to restore a fallen minister? I'm not sure I understand your point, maybe I missed it? TB went through an extensive restoration process that was actually VERY public, and was out of ministry for over 2 years if I'm not mistaken. Again, I don't really follow TB, and don't really give him any thought, and I do loathe the fact that sin is glossed over and people are never removed from public ministry, or restored, but that is not the case here.

    That said, which denominations are you referring to, that don't have guidelines for a restoration process? Even Jimmy Swaggert was given a specific restoration process, so again (AOG, right?)....maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.
    Catchy, I apologize for any confusion. Your reply helped me to gather my thought a little better. I wasn't really referring to the restoration process. What I should have addressed was the fact that in some of the denominations they don't allow divorced men to pastor.

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Your post made me take a look at the wikipedia article about Todd Bentley that there was a discussion about earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_B...#Divorce_issue

    "Bentley announced his separation from his wife, Shonnah, in August 2008,[1][29] and resigned from the Board of Fresh Fire.[30] A statement released by the remaining Board members said "Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff", and that he would 'refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life'.[31][32]

    Some of Bentley's Christian contemporaries called for Bentley to step down in the wake of the scandal, stating that Christian leadership is incompatible with marital unfaithfulness.[33][34] In response, a committee made up of Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson was formed to oversee the process of spiritually restoring Bentley's family.[35] In November 2008, the Board of Fresh Fire announced that Bentley was not submitting to the process.[36][37] On March 9, 2009, Rick Joyner announced that Bentley had remarried.[2][38][39]

    A 2009 Charisma magazine interview with Rick Joyner refuted adultery claims while characterizing the relationship as wrong and premature. Joyner told Charisma that the new couple was committed to their marriage and would “continue to serve the Lord in the best way that they can.”[37]

    Around 2010, Rick Joyner declared that Bentley was 'restored' and he returned to preaching and leading crusades."


    In other words, Todd Bentley separates from his wife while getting entangled with a new woman, has to step down, is told to participate in a process of restoration, refuses to do so, then remarries, then participates in the process of restoration, then is declared restored, one year later. Still with the new wife in place. He is still married to that new wife, 6 years later.

    For short, he got rid of the old wife, got the new one and keeps the new one. So people, what does this have to do with repentance ? In what manner did he change his ways ?
    It doesn't matter to followers of Rick Joyner. Rick Joyner was one of the original members of the "apostolic covering" that ordained TB while TB was actively engaged in in adultery. So there may be some face-saving going on there, the inability on the part of Joyner and crew to repent of their original "ordination". To just plow ahead with "we were right all along". Some could say they are just calling evil good and good evil. They will say that if you don't follow along, you are being religious or in more strident cases, like catchy, they will issue thinly veiled spiritual threats like "you won't receive any mercy". This is all cult like behaviour, circling the wagons around men, while spiritualizing sin and threatening others who don't fall in line.

    Now, that's all fine and dandy if RJ followers want to play along, it's their walk, they know the details, they know the word of God, or at least have access to it. What others need to be aware is that any ministry that condones sin or immorality should be firmly rejected. One of the reasons I held firm in the original thread against the wishes of A.J. was because the judging of the prophetic utterance does not occur apart from the character of the one issuing the word, character matters. Now if you want to follow the man, etc, etc, that's your call but for those who hold to biblical standards there is no condemnation.

    Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Rick Joyner was one of the original members of the "apostolic covering" that ordained TB while TB was actively engaged in in adultery.
    I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Which year was that and did that involve a different woman than the one he married in 2009 after separating from his wife in 2008 (which happened a few months into the Lakeland revival) ?

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  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Which year was that and did that involve a different woman than the one he married in 2009 after separating from his wife in 2008 (which happened a few months into the Lakeland revival) ?
    You can do your own homework on the timelines, I did post a video of TBs coronation in the prior thread.

    BUT I have really tried to stay on the principle of moral ministry vs. any particular personality as that typically leads to many quarrels according to:

    1 Corinthians 3:3-4 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

    There are some here who go into a tizzy if you go near their favorite men.

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  15. #38
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The video you linked in the other thread was uploaded June 24, 2008 so the footage is from that date or earlier. It must have taken place between April 2, 2008 which was when the Lakeland revival began and august 2008 when Todd Bentley separated from his wife whom he had been married to for about ten years. The new woman became the couple's friend some time before the Lakeland revival began. Rick Joyner later denies that there was adultery going on according to the strict definition and the claim is that the friendship developed into an emotionally unhealthy relationship. But that isn't what I'm concerned with.

    I'm more concerned with the fact that he separates from his wife then refuses to participate in the restoration process apparently until after he has remarried and that they some time later buy his new "attitude" as meaning he is "restored" when apparently there is nothing going on except his getting rid of one wife to get a new one.

    Does his having formally married the new woman impress them so much that they are willing to disregard the old marriage and go with the new one as long as his attitude in relation to his new marriage is "godly" ? Is his being committed to the new woman all they really care about ?

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  17. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The video you linked in the other thread was uploaded June 24, 2008 so the footage is from that date or earlier. It must have taken place between April 2, 2008 which was when the Lakeland revival began and august 2008 when Todd Bentley separated from his wife whom he had been married to for about ten years. The new woman became the couple's friend some time before the Lakeland revival began. Rick Joyner later denies that there was adultery going on according to the strict definition and the claim is that the friendship developed into an emotionally unhealthy relationship. But that isn't what I'm concerned with.

    I'm more concerned with the fact that he separates from his wife then refuses to participate in the restoration process apparently until after he has remarried and that they some time later buy his new "attitude" as meaning he is "restored" when apparently there is nothing going on except his getting rid of one wife to get a new one.

    Does his having formally married the new woman impress them so much that they are willing to disregard the old marriage and go with the new one as long as his attitude in relation to his new marriage is "godly" ? Is his being committed to the new woman all they really care about ?
    It's all new revelation Colonel, repentance isn't required for restoration.

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  19. #40
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Here is confirmation that he only participated in the restoration process after having remarried :

    http://www.charismamag.com/site-arch...ration-process

    "Todd Bentley, who became well-known for leading the Lakeland Outpouring until he stepped down after announcing he was divorcing his wife, Shonnah, has remarried.

    He has also entered into a restoration process led by MorningStar Ministries founder Rick Joyner, it was announced Monday.

    Joyner said Bentley and his new wife, Jessa, married "several weeks ago" and have moved to Fort Mill, S.C., where MorningStar is based. Jack Deere of Wellspring Church in Texas and Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in California will assist Joyner in overseeing Bentley's restoration process.

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