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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #311
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Quest, the Holy Spirit and the word of God are not at odds with each other. If the Holy Spirit isn't leading you right back to the word of God, it isn't the Holy Spirit.



    Your insistence in this thread that Davids life is some sort of NT ministry model is wholly flawed. David didn't have the benefit of the counsel available to us and wasn't accountable to standards he had no understanding of. We now have a better way, much superior to the the ancients.
    John, nor does the word of God contradict itself..either someone is the righteousness of God when repentant...or they are not...

    So for man to dictate how a righteous man can and cannot be used by Holy Spirit makes no sense...so the passage you are standing on only works if YOU interpret it that way..that was discussed several pages back.

    David's live is not a NT ministry model..but it is rue an awesome revelation of the character of GOD...that has not changed...God does not hold to double jeopardy....yes you are forgiven and clean but I still have to punish you by withholding your gifts and calling...
    Last edited by Quest; 09-09-2015 at 09:02 AM.

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  3. #312
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Christians often seem to think that sinners are easily forgiven, Christians are less easily forgiven and ministers are very difficult for God to forgive. That is not the case. But there is also :

    Luke 12:48b For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

    I love what the very next verse says :

    12:49 I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

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  5. #313
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    John, nor does the word of God contradict itself..either someone is the righteousness of God when repentant...or they are not...

    So for man to dictate how a righteous man can and cannot be used by Holy Spirit makes no sense...so the passage you are standing on only works if YOU interpret it that way..that was discussed several pages back.

    David's live is not a NT ministry model..but it is rue an awesome revelation of the character of GOD...that has not changed...God does not hold to double jeopardy....yes you are forgiven and clean but I still have to punish you by withholding your gifts and calling...
    You hold man to double jeopardy by insisting on a return to the point of failure. That isn't restoration, that's just kinda stupid, If the grace to walk out a so-called calling were available to begin with, there wouldn't have been a failure. This isn't some carnal "get back on the horsie", practice makes perfect type of thing.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Why would the person in question have to fail if he goes back to the same ministry again ? Are you a believer in "once failed, always failing" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Why would the person in question have to fail if he goes back to the same ministry again ? Are you a believer in "once failed, always failing" ?
    There are higher standards for spiritual ministry, it has nothing to do with failure per se. What I did say was that the conditions for ministry weren't met in the first place, the grace to walk out moral ministry, to be an example, to not harm others, to not bring reproach to Christ.

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  11. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Why would the person in question have to fail if he goes back to the same ministry again ? Are you a believer in "once failed, always failing" ?
    There are higher standards for spiritual ministry, it has nothing to do with failure per se. What I did say was that the conditions for ministry weren't met in the first place, the grace to walk out moral ministry, to be an example, to not harm others, to not bring reproach to Christ. In that case, using the word "restoration" is not even appropriate, we should just be saying "keep trying", "fake it til you make it", we are no longer talking grace, we are talking presumption.

    If a man never met the conditions to be qualified, there can be no restoration to a place he never belonged. It was just a wrong turn. Grace would be better served by simply accepting that, in humility.

    Failure can be simply defined as being where you aren't supposed to be, why return to that? That would not be grace, that would be ignorant, presumptuous.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    You hold man to double jeopardy by insisting on a return to the point of failure. That isn't restoration, that's just kinda stupid, If the grace to walk out a so-called calling were available to begin with, there wouldn't have been a failure. This isn't some carnal "get back on the horsie", practice makes perfect type of thing.
    John, it seems obvious at this point that you are locked into a single scripture interpretation ..and have no intention of considering a differing point of view of that interpretation..so I will close with this..

    1. People in ministry are imperfect.
    2. God's forgiveness and grace is unlimited
    3. The calling and gifts are irrevocable.
    4. Restoration when a minister falls is significant.
    5. When their relationship with the LORD is restored and they have dealt with the root of their sin GOD releases them to continue working in the Kingdom as He leads and man is NOT in charge of that.
    6. As our relationship advances our transformation advances and as our transformation advances our work advances...when we stumble, we deal with WHAT and WHY through genuine repentance and making right what is needful or possible and that is part of the transformation process..so we are advancing and laboring is the outflow of that advancing relationship...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    John, it seems obvious at this point that you are locked into a single scripture interpretation ..and have no intention of considering a differing point of view of that interpretation..so I will close with this..
    It's not interpretation on my part, there is a body of scripture that guides us as to NT ministry, you have chosen to ignore it, put yourself above it.

    Interpretation is not even on your radar. Ignore scripture at your own risk.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    It's not interpretation on my part, there is a body of scripture that guides us as to NT ministry, you have chosen to ignore it, put yourself above it.

    Interpretation is not even on your radar. Ignore scripture at your own risk.
    No John..I don't ignore it...I interpret it in context AND in light of the rest of the NT...scripture interprets scripture..

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  19. #320
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    I make you a picture, hopefully you see.

    Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?-ngbbs45184574ba9d1-jpg

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