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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #291
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Paul's letter to Titus talks about walking in integrity. For instance :

    Titus 2:6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded,
    7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,
    8a sound speech that cannot be condemned

    Let's see what the result of all this is :

    8b that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you

    The opponent can still persecute us for the sake of the name of Jesus but that is a matter of calling that which is good evil. Which is different to having something evil to say of us.

    Phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
    14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,
    15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world
    I agree, but once a person genuinely repents and is healed in their relationship with God their accusations of our past may be accurate information but our testimony of His mercy and forgiveness is now our new witness..

    Satan is the accuser..the fact is we can al be accused at some point..none of us have lived a perfect life...what do we do with those accusations?

    Once we repent and are forgiven and forgive ourselves our relationship with God is restored to right standing...the fact of our sin remains, but the condemnation is gone. We need to pray for those we have been an offense...but we can't make their choice to forgive or remain bitter...

    Some seem to think God's grace is unfair...well in that case there is no hope for any of us...

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  3. #292
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    There is a gulf to be crossed between forgiven and restored beyond the grace prescribed in Gods word.

    Can God cross that gulf? Does God go against His word?

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  5. #293
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Titus 2:8b that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you

    Paul would have to include himself in the above verse and he was, according to his own testimony, the chief of sinners. He says that in relation to his former life as a persecutor and murderer of course. A past he had rejected utterly before the world and the world finds that sort of testimony credible, they allow people to change. Going back to being something like that after already having rejected that vehemently would lead the world to declare him a hypocrite and find it hard to trust him again. One can cry "wolf" only so many times before people simply lose interest or turn against one.

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  7. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Titus 2:8b that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you

    Paul would have to include himself in the above verse and he was, according to his own testimony, the chief of sinners. He says that in relation to his former life as a persecutor and murderer of course. A past he had rejected utterly before the world and the world finds that sort of testimony credible, they allow people to change. Going back to being something like that after already having rejected that vehemently would lead the world to declare him a hypocrite and find it hard to trust him again. One can cry "wolf" only so many times before people simply lose interest or turn against one.
    Problem is that true minsitry isnt about pointing people to "One" but Pointing People to CHRIST .. Having nothing evil to say of YOU is not quite the same animal as saying Evil of CHRIST

    There are many flawed Ministers whom Despite my reservations towards them be it in lifestyle or doctrine , I am still able to receive of them when they are speaking truth ...

    When you lay hands on the sick and cancer disappears the recipient of the healing really doesn't care if you have been divorced ten times ... FACT

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  9. #295
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    I've often wondered when the day comes when some folks will be praising God in prison and He opens the gates and literally sets them all free!

    Will the church have enough grace to deal with those such as them?

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  11. #296
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Problem is that true minsitry isnt about pointing people to "One" but Pointing People to CHRIST .. Having nothing evil to say of YOU is not quite the same animal as saying Evil of CHRIST

    @@@Mat 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
    14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
    15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
    16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


    There are many flawed Ministers whom Despite my reservations towards them be it in lifestyle or doctrine , I am still able to receive of them when they are speaking truth ...

    @@@You are a believer. Non-believers can't be expected to think like you do.

    When you lay hands on the sick and cancer disappears the recipient of the healing really doesn't care if you have been divorced ten times ... FACT

    @@@If you have a genuinely bad reputation they may not listen to your message to begin with, they may not attend your meetings, they may not allow you to pray for anyone. If they do allow you to lay hands on them and pray for them they may be full of unbelief and receive nothing. Even if someone is healed when you lay hands on someone, the others may reject the whole thing and spread lies about you, the one healed, any evidence of healing etc.
    .

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Seems some are describing how the 'world' and the 'church' should or DO view someone who has fallen and repented but my question has been should not the 'church' at least view them as GOD does?

    So again I ask...does MAN have the right to restrict someone being led by GOD to minister to others?

    And where we STARTED was that when someone passes judgment to that affect can they even recognize when GOD is doing something different?

    Take it a step further..how much of the hierarchy of organizational structure is actually biblical and how much of it was instituted by religion.

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  15. #298
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    It could also be the case that MAN has decided that some minister should be restored back to the same ministry even though GOD has declared in his Word that he shouldn't be.

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  17. #299
    I keep seeing "genuine".. or "sincere"

    NO one, but God alone, knows the heart.. NO one but Him alone knows if ANY repentance is genuine.

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  19. #300
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    I keep seeing "genuine".. or "sincere"

    NO one, but God alone, knows the heart.. NO one but Him alone knows if ANY repentance is genuine.
    Does that mean that we should all simply take everyone's word for whatever it is that they claim about such things and leave it at that ? 10 time serial adulterer and all ?

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