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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #281
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    It is also happening with non charismatics but we don't hear about it as much on the media
    Example being Tullian Tjividian
    It reminds me of executives who do a poor job but still get a huge bonus or are fired and then immediately hired somewhere else with a larger salary.

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  3. #282
    Absolutely NOT a "Charismatic" phenom. The Catholic Church hustled child molesters from Church to Church, parish to parish, for decades if not centuries. That's not a "divorce" issue, but it does point out that cover-ups and sinful behaviors aren't relegated to any specific denomination.

    But again, as I already said, the "culture" of slamming everyone who had been divorced was NOT a healthy alternative, either.

    The culture went from women who wouldn't or couldn't leave their spouse who had given them AIDS and they are laying on their deathbed, still not divorcing their spouse, to no-fault divorce. Neither are healthy or good for any culture. And the Church has experienced the same extremes as the culture at large.

    My grandmother stayed with a man who beat her, beat her children (and scarred them all), and even when he was shacking up with numerous other women, she refused to divorce him, as if that was some sort of honorable thing. Personally, I find that sick and disgusting. And the only reason she wouldn't divorce him was because she knew if she did, she could never remarry (according to the "bible"). Catch 22 where women in particular suffered terribly under "Church" teachings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    It is also happening with non charismatics but we don't hear about it as much on the media
    Example being Tullian Tjividian

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  5. #283
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    What about a comparison between Charismatic churches and (the more traditional) Pentecostal denominations ?

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  7. #284
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What about a comparison between Charismatic churches and (the more traditional) Pentecostal denominations ?
    I have no statistics but my guess is it's about the same..sin is sin...it wherever there are humans..I would not trust statistics for the very reason Catchy mentioned..some organizations cover it up...social media is getting such that it's hard to do where there is a celebrity factor' involved.

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  9. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I have no statistics but my guess is it's about the same..sin is sin...it wherever there are humans..I would not trust statistics for the very reason Catchy mentioned..some organizations cover it up...social media is getting such that it's hard to do where there is a celebrity factor' involved.
    I was thinking about their way of dealing with adultery and divorce, not to which degree ministers engage in those activities.

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  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I was thinking about their way of dealing with adultery and divorce, not to which degree ministers engage in those activities.
    Got cha....maybe most just 'leave quietly' and go on to try to get licensed under a different organization or independent or just quit altogether believing God will not use them again..

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  13. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Got cha....maybe most just 'leave quietly' and go on to try to get licensed under a different organization or independent or just quit altogether believing God will not use them again..
    >God will not use them again..

    That is an extreme, similar to "go sit on the pew", obviously being restored to a righteous walk and brought back into fellowship to be loved on, prayed for, etc is not exactly a spiritual booby prize, some might say it is a great thing, a wonderful thing, why do you make it sound like punishment? It also denigrates the "least of these". Why not just continue in humility without a platform? And I suppose on the other end of grace lays the question..Is it really merciful, kind and graceful to restore someone to their point of failure? Are you not tempting God, being presumptuous?

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  15. #288
    I think people forget that it is God who calls people into Ministry not men . Men only recognize and affirm what God has called and the Gifts and Callings of God are clearly without repentance..

    What some here don't realize is that the Qualifications for ministry as stated in Timothy and Titus are not exhaustive and do not negate every other biblical principle that we hold dear . Grace forgiveness , Mercy etc . Fact is God always deals with the Now

    So so long as an individual is NOW currently walking in line with those qualifications then His Gift will make room for him.His/her past is pretty much irrelevant to God .

    Now those who feel that once a minister falls; Thats it ministry wise, are certainly free not to partake of the Grace that's on him/her and find that perfect spotless minister to support .. The rest of us believe that God can and is willing to restore.

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  17. #289
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The minister's past is irrelevant to God but the minister's present isn't.

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  19. #290
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Paul's letter to Titus talks about walking in integrity. For instance :

    Titus 2:6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded,
    7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,
    8a sound speech that cannot be condemned

    Let's see what the result of all this is :

    8b that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you

    The opponent can still persecute us for the sake of the name of Jesus but that is a matter of calling that which is good evil. Which is different to having something evil to say of us.

    Phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
    14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,
    15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world

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