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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #261
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Parents were far stricter back then than they are today. Households were often run like small businesses by the patriarch. Women and children were bossed around. Obedient children was the norm as long as they stayed at home, then there was the rod if they tried something. Children would probably go along with their parents' faith out of obedience or loyalty whether it was heartfelt or not, rather than make it seems like they were rebelling. Therefore this would say something about the character of the father of the household, given the cultural context. It's not directly transferrable today's culture.
    I agree...if one does try to transfer it there would be NO leaders...and I still don't get the concept that MAN can forbid someone who is forgiven and directed by Holy Spirit to step down and not do what they are being led to do...

    One has to conclude that all that a person is doing after having committed adultery in their past is of man and not the Holy Spirit leading, not the concept of forbidding them from serving because they ever did...now THAT would be a different discussion IMHO..

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  3. #262
    Not a problem, Quest. Thanks for clarifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I know...that was a big part of my irritation....that you were accused of what they actually DID...sorry I was not clear..

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Let's say someone has been a Christian all their life, has no character at all, has a really bad reputation with everyone, repented of everything there is to repent of five minutes ago, claims to have a calling to be pastor of the largest church in town. Should those things matter when thinking about letting him have that position ? Or does it perhaps tell us something about whether or not God has called him to do just that ? Maybe God has a servant who is better fit for the job ? Even if this one did in fact repent from everything five minutes ago ?
    Interesting hypothetical.....
    Is the 5 minute person clean? Yes..are they righteous by faith? Do they have a God centered call in their life? Yes....Has Holy Spirit lead and released them into that full blown call? Not likely..but that is not at all what we are discussing..we are discussing someone who has been taught in the scriptures, has served the Lord, who sinned, now being restored to his call and service.

    Seems to me to be a different subject..

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    Not a problem, Quest. Thanks for clarifying.
    Actually...I was going Momma Bear on John for reprimanding you...

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  9. #265
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Let's say someone has been a Christian all their life, has no character at all, has a really bad reputation with everyone, repented of everything there is to repent of five minutes ago, claims to have a calling to be pastor of the largest church in town. Should those things matter when thinking about letting him have that position ? Or does it perhaps tell us something about whether or not God has called him to do just that ? Maybe God has a servant who is better fit for the job ? Even if this one did in fact repent from everything five minutes ago ?
    In case you missed it, we have NEVER said that someone who repented 5 minutes ago, or even 10, that they should step directly back into ministry. We've stated over and over again that after YEARS of restoration and growth, it should be ok to proceed with accountability.

    Geeesh....

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  11. #266
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Parents were far stricter back then than they are today. Households were often run like small businesses by the patriarch. Women and children were bossed around. Obedient children was the norm as long as they stayed at home, then there was the rod if they tried something. Children would probably go along with their parents' faith out of obedience or loyalty whether it was heartfelt or not, rather than make it seems like they were rebelling. Therefore this would say something about the character of the father of the household, given the cultural context. It's not directly transferrable to today's culture.
    So now you're using culture.

    People are people and children are children no matter the culture, no matter the time of the earth, or Cain and Able wouldn't have happened, or Esau and Jacob wouldn't have either... just a couple examples, although, I think Mama got involved in the Esau and Jacob thang.

    There have always been rebellious children and there always will be. Just go to Walmart and walk around for awhile.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Interesting hypothetical.....
    Is the 5 minute person clean? Yes..are they righteous by faith? Do they have a God centered call in their life? Yes....Has Holy Spirit lead and released them into that full blown call? Not likely..but that is not at all what we are discussing..we are discussing someone who has been taught in the scriptures, has served the Lord, who sinned, now being restored to his call and service.

    Seems to me to be a different subject..
    Todd Bentley's case is a bit too fuzzy to conclude on one way or the other. I think we are discussing scriptural principles rather than TB by now.

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  15. #268
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    So now you're using culture.

    People are people and children are children no matter the culture, no matter the time of the earth, or Cain and Able wouldn't have happened, or Esau and Jacob wouldn't have either... just a couple examples, although, I think Mama got involved in the Esau and Jacob thang.

    There have always been rebellious children and there always will be. Just go to Walmart and walk around for awhile.
    Not sure what you mean by "now you're using culture". I have never been in the habit of using scriptures as commandments according to the letter.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    In case you missed it, we have NEVER said that someone who repented 5 minutes ago, or even 10, that they should step directly back into ministry. We've stated over and over again that after YEARS of restoration and growth, it should be ok to proceed with accountability.

    Geeesh....
    Not sure what the gheesh is for either. So sorry that my example wasn't perfectly relevant in your eyes.

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  19. #270
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    We know that is the ideal way....Paul did have an advantage...he didn't have any children that could cause him to be forced to step down despite God's call to apostleship..
    OK, now I am pretty sure where the disconnect is.

    Who really wrote the bible?

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