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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #251
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    The reason for upholding moral standards for ministry is the power of example.

    Titus 2:7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness
    We've all been in tight spots, tempted and if we are resisting we will often look to examples, leadership, like "What would Jesus do" or would would my father do, or what would my pastor do? It's a very powerful thing, not to be taken lightly.

    If you observe leadership in any organization, you will quickly see that seed produces after its own kind. Sloppy managers have sloppy employees. Immoral government produces immoral societal standards, etc., these things should be plain to anyone who has eyes.

    1 Corinthians 11:1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

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  3. #252
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Titus 1:6–9

    6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
    7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
    8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
    9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

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  5. #253
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    1 Timothy 3:1–7

    1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
    2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
    3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
    4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
    5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
    6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
    7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

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  7. #254
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    1 Timothy 3:1–7

    1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
    2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
    3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
    4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
    5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
    6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
    7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
    That's my passage, Nikos. We discussed it for pages.

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  9. #255
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Titus 1:6–9

    6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
    7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
    8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
    9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
    There are some qualifications listed in this passage as well, that one cannot simply repent one's way to.

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  11. #256
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    So if a man has children who reject God he can't obey the Lord in his gifting and calling...wow..or if they get into any kind of civil trouble..hmmm...so if they are 30 does their dad have to step down?

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  13. #257
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The reason for upholding moral standards for ministry is the power of example.



    We've all been in tight spots, tempted and if we are resisting we will often look to examples, leadership, like "What would Jesus do" or would would my father do, or what would my pastor do? It's a very powerful thing, not to be taken lightly.

    If you observe leadership in any organization, you will quickly see that seed produces after its own kind. Sloppy managers have sloppy employees. Immoral government produces immoral societal standards, etc., these things should be plain to anyone who has eyes.
    We know that is the ideal way....Paul did have an advantage...he didn't have any children that could cause him to be forced to step down despite God's call to apostleship..

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  15. #258
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    But I DIDN'T do what Nikos did!

    I know...that was a big part of my irritation....that you were accused of what they actually DID...sorry I was not clear..

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  17. #259
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    So if a man has children who reject God he can't obey the Lord in his gifting and calling...wow..or if they get into any kind of civil trouble..hmmm...so if they are 30 does their dad have to step down?
    Parents were far stricter back then than they are today. Households were often run like small businesses by the patriarch. Women and children were bossed around. Obedient children was the norm as long as they stayed at home, then there was the rod if they tried something. Children would probably go along with their parents' faith out of obedience or loyalty whether it was heartfelt or not, rather than make it seems like they were rebelling. Therefore this would say something about the character of the father of the household, given the cultural context. It's not directly transferrable to today's culture.

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  19. #260
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Let's say someone has been a Christian all their life, has no character at all, has a really bad reputation with everyone, repented of everything there is to repent of five minutes ago, claims to have a calling to be pastor of the largest church in town. Should those things matter when thinking about letting him have that position ? Or does it perhaps tell us something about whether or not God has called him to do just that ? Maybe God has a servant who is better fit for the job ? Even if this one did in fact repent from everything five minutes ago ?

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