Page 21 of 33 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 325

Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #201
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    6,318
    Thanked: 4480
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    You are assuming way too much in regards to the victims. And if it makes me "goofus" to consider them, so be it.
    What exactly am I assuming?

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  3. #202
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,644
    Thanked: 4892
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    What exactly am I assuming?

    That they are somehow mature enough or even positioned to receive the most excellent ministry you prescribed for them.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  5. #203
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    6,318
    Thanked: 4480
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    That they are somehow mature enough or even positioned to receive the most excellent ministry you prescribed for them.
    Sigh........

    Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Forgive or become hard hearted (heart of stone) and bitter.

    I wasn't mature or positioned to receive that type of ministry when I needed it and didn't even know I did. But God brought it to me. Opened the doors. I chose to walk through. And it continues, as needed, even today. If He did it for me, He'll do it for them.

    You keep (choosing to) missing my point that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Perpetrator and victim.

    The perpetrator wounds. The wounded can choose to forgive or live with the consequences of forgiveness, which is anger, hatred, murder in their hearts, bitterness....

    Eph 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

    Bitterness causes much damage. Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

    Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment.

    How do we stop that judgement against us? Forgive. How do we stop bitter roots? Forgive.

    And God promises to give us a heart of flesh.

    Ez 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

    John, this is basic stuff.

    And IF and WHEN someone has truly repented and gone through restoration, God can and WILL use their testimony for His Glory.

    Perpetrator and victim/survivor.

    God can and does use whomever He chooses.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (08-31-2015), FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  7. #204
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,076
    Thanked: 5486
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    And IF and WHEN someone has truly repented and gone through restoration, God can and WILL use their testimony for His Glory.
    But not necessarily in whatever way they choose. Others with a, by now, better reputation with outsiders, may be more fit for large scale, outward ministry.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  9. #205
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    6,318
    Thanked: 4480
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    But not necessarily in whatever way they choose. Others with a, by now, better reputation with outsiders, may be more fit for large scale, outward ministry.
    Thankfully, none of us are God to decide where and when someone can by used.

    Obviously, TB's character did not measure up to his calling. He fell and he fell hard. His own choices. His own pride. His own rebellion. He caused great damage to his wife, his children, his extended family, the people who were employed by the ministry... and shame to the Body of Christ. No one has denied those things.

    I pray that all the people who were hurt by his actions have found their way to healing.

    He repented. He's walked and continues to walk it out.

    Let's make a huge jump here and say that walking out all this mess has caused his character to rise to his calling.

    If his character and behavior now reflect the Jesus he claims to serve and he's remaining accountable to elders in his life, why would he not be able to be in ministry.

    We cannot, or at least should not be judged by our past, when we are IN Christ Jesus.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  11. #206
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,076
    Thanked: 5486
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Thankfully, none of us are God to decide where and when someone can by used.

    Obviously, TB's character did not measure up to his calling. He fell and he fell hard. His own choices. His own pride. His own rebellion. He caused great damage to his wife, his children, his extended family, the people who were employed by the ministry... and shame to the Body of Christ. No one has denied those things.

    I pray that all the people who were hurt by his actions have found their way to healing.

    He repented. He's walked and continues to walk it out.

    Let's make a huge jump here and say that walking out all this mess has caused his character to rise to his calling.

    If his character and behavior now reflect the Jesus he claims to serve and he's remaining accountable to elders in his life, why would he not be able to be in ministry.

    We cannot, or at least should not be judged by our past, when we are IN Christ Jesus.
    Back to a conceivable and undeniable hypothetical example.

    Rick Joyner decides to join ISIS, is arrested before he does anything besides that, stands trial with the world press watching, serves a few years in prison, gets out and is deemed repentive and restored by the Church, gets back into ministry.

    Then you say "noone in Christ Jesus should be judged by their past". Okay, I might buy that he is repentive and restored in every which way. Maybe that is the truth. The world will certainly never buy that. They will judge him based on his past, his actions are sufficiently severe that that is a certainty. I'll buy that it is quite possible that the Church in general will buy that he is back and will let him be who he was before and let him have a worldwide influence etc.

    He will not be able to represent Jesus Christ outwardly towards the world the way he did before because his reputation is now irrevocably wrecked. In the eyes of the world. The ones he is supposed to minister to, not only to the Church.

    This is simply a fact, whether you like that fact or not.

    Things may not be that bad with Todd Bentley but the principle remains. A good reputation with outsiders is a natural requirement for representative ministry. Ministry towards the world is about doing good out there, not about being good to the minister in question. If he isn't fit for that anymore then he isn't, regardless of the state of his heart etc.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  13. #207
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,644
    Thanked: 4892
    When this topic started I knew very little about TB, he was never really on my radar, I had heard about Lakeland but I've been there before so a lot of controversies are bound to ensue, this one (revival) seems to have a particular lasting fruit of controversy and after trying to follow up on what people were saying here, it all led back to the Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley alliance.

    There is a mountain that would have to be moved to convince some here of sound doctrine. Visions, visitations, letters, bulletins, words, many many words and a plethora of spiritual hocus pokus has been thrown at the restoration of Todd Bentleys ministry. How much of it is actually true or biblical or sound would at this point probably take a decade or so to unwind.

    I'll keep an eye out for fruit, I can probably tell you where this going to end up, but I'm OK with leaving it to the Lord at this point. He'll show you too, I'm sure there will be a lesson in it for all of us.

    If you and yours are comfortable with Todds ministry, head on out or on down or on up and visit but for those who aren't, that's ok too.

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, not men.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  15. #208
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    6,318
    Thanked: 4480
    I already said, more than once, I think, that I'm going to some meetings in Sept. where TB is the speaker because I want to see for myself.

    People whose discernment I trust have told me that character has met calling as they've sat in his meetings in the last year and I trust the church/ministry that is having him come.

    I need to see for myself.

    John, I don't serve men. I do extend grace and mercy but I also know when to draw a line.

    I'll know when I go if I need to draw a line.

    Believe it or not, I do operate in SOME discernment.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to A.J. For This Useful Post:

    FaithfulOne (08-31-2015), FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  17. #209
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,863
    Thanked: 3342
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    But not necessarily in whatever way they choose. Others with a, by now, better reputation with outsiders, may be more fit for large scale, outward ministry.
    No just as any 'ministry' should operate...as God chooses.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  19. #210
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    9,222
    Thanked: 5488
    Blog Entries
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    When this topic started I knew very little about TB, he was never really on my radar, I had heard about Lakeland but I've been there before so a lot of controversies are bound to ensue, this one (revival) seems to have a particular lasting fruit of controversy and after trying to follow up on what people were saying here, it all led back to the Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley alliance.

    There is a mountain that would have to be moved to convince some here of sound doctrine. Visions, visitations, letters, bulletins, words, many many words and a plethora of spiritual hocus pokus has been thrown at the restoration of Todd Bentleys ministry. How much of it is actually true or biblical or sound would at this point probably take a decade or so to unwind.

    I'll keep an eye out for fruit, I can probably tell you where this going to end up, but I'm OK with leaving it to the Lord at this point. He'll show you too, I'm sure there will be a lesson in it for all of us.

    If you and yours are comfortable with Todds ministry, head on out or on down or on up and visit but for those who aren't, that's ok too.
    T
    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, not men.
    Excellent post. You are making sense. Most of the posts are nothing but baloney.
    The sin of adultery is not a light thing and must be seen as it really is. This man committed a terrible sin and then wants me and others to believe that he prayed some lay me down to sleep prayer and it is all right now. No way!
    He has a track record that shows he is not to be trusted. He has turned away from God and treated his wife with hatred and betrayal.. Adultery is a terrible sin. It is more than a little fun on the side. It takes hold of a person and buries itself deep in his soul. This is not a Grace issue, it is a sin issue. Why don't the tattoo man just walk off the platform and out of the spot light and sit down, shut up and serve the Lord quietly.
    O BTW, he will have to get a job where he works to support his family and hopefully pay something to the precious wife he abandoned. Now that might be something he wouldn't want to do.
    Last edited by Nikos; 09-01-2015 at 01:41 AM.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Nikos For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid repair bills with an extended service plan for your Jeep. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in unexpected expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.