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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Peter was still in the flesh, he wasn't born again yet. That debate probably needs to end up in the "were OT saints born again?". My understanding is that they weren't, until the vessel was washed in the blood of Jesus the Holy Spirit could not abide in them, on them at times but not in them.

    It's not relevant to New Covenant ministry.
    You're saying that Jesus has less mercy on those he has actually redeemed ?

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  3. #12
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    You're saying that Jesus has less mercy on those he has actually redeemed ?
    I said no such thing.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    I said no such thing.
    What did you say then ?

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  7. #14
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Colonel, I think you are confused about New Testament and New Covenant. There is a lot of OT ministry in the New Testament but the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ marks the beginning of the New Covenant. Anything prior to that event falls into "the old".

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    You didn't answer the question nor do I think you are going to.

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    You didn't answer the question nor do I think you are going to.
    I can hear your brain grinding gears Colonel, you seem to be debating out in left field, are you trying to make a point?

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  13. #17
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I rest my case.

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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  15. #18
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Maybe rest your brain for awhile while you are at it.

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  17. #19
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    A recent thread closed with a few few misconceptions dangling.

    How would you FEEL if people held your sin from 7-8 yrs ago against you and said you could no longer minister in your gifts and callings even though you'd done everything you'd been asked to do, submitting to your authorities and walking in humility and accountability. Would you truly believe you "deserved" to sit in the pews the rest of your life?
    The problem with that line of thinking is that ones FEELINGS trump truth. If you consider the end of a matter, apply emotion based theology to the broader body of Christ, we'd have to empty the the prisons of murderers, rapists, swindlers and every other person who didn't feel good about the FRUIT of their actions. We would have to offer them full restoration of their privileges, societal standing and church functions. After all, the end aim is to make them FEEL GOOD.

    The notion that God needs a certain man or woman is presumption. No one is robbed of the Lords ministry and HE certainly doesn't NEED anyone to carry out His will, He can and does use people, that does not mean that anyone is indispensable to the Kingdom. There is no entitlement to ministry and anyone who thinks so probably shouldn't be in ministry. It is a privilege to serve others, not an entitlement.

    As for the rest of your post, quite frankly, if you blew it badly and repented, submitted your life, etc...and 8 years later, dismissed every thing in your life, SWEARING you had no character whatsoever, then how would YOU feel? Not so great, I'd reckon.
    Again, how one FEELS about past destructive behaviour is between them and the Lord but it is not a mandate on our part to "restore" them to pre-fall privilege.

    Mercy triumphs over judgement, yes, but mercy is not an argument for full restoration, sin has consequences.
    Ooopppsss ... my bad.

    First, nobody said feelings trump truth. I was tired when I posted, so I may not have said it in the best way.

    Sin does have consequences, I tell people that all the time. The murderers, rapists, swindlers and every other person in prison needs to finish their sentence and when released, start a new life. The point is, they get to start a new life IF they have truly repented, gone through restoration, stay accountable...... the ones who do, succeed, the ones who don't, end up back in prison.

    SO. David's son died because of his (David's) sin. Even when David was confronted, God didn't remove him. You might argue that not everyone called of God is a David. I suppose, but the word says that Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    I'm just not sure why you believe there needs to be a lifetime sentence for those who morally fail. If they're unrepentant, sure. But if they ARE now walking a Godly walk then ???????

    Oh, oh, oh ....... and then there's the Scripture that says that we overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.

    The blood either covers or it doesn't. God either uses our testimony or He doesn't.

    And like I said in the other thread, in September I'm going to a weekend thing where Todd Bentley is the speaker because I want to see for myself. I'll report back, if anyone even is open enough to hear the truth, which ever way it goes.



    I'm not going to argue about this any longer. That's why I closed the other thread, with permission from Krys, not a misuse of my Mod status, I might add.


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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

  19. #20
    Shucks, I never really "followed" Todd Bentley, and don't really know a lot about what he's doing nowadays. I did enjoy watching Lakeland sometimes, though, with the exception of some of the worship leaders.

    My entire perspective is one of principles and following the Word, which doesn't have much to do with Bentley. That said, I'd love to hear what you think when you get back, so definitely keep us updated, and be blessed as you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Ooopppsss ... my bad.

    First, nobody said feelings trump truth. I was tired when I posted, so I may not have said it in the best way.

    Sin does have consequences, I tell people that all the time. The murderers, rapists, swindlers and every other person in prison needs to finish their sentence and when released, start a new life. The point is, they get to start a new life IF they have truly repented, gone through restoration, stay accountable...... the ones who do, succeed, the ones who don't, end up back in prison.

    SO. David's son died because of his (David's) sin. Even when David was confronted, God didn't remove him. You might argue that not everyone called of God is a David. I suppose, but the word says that Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    I'm just not sure why you believe there needs to be a lifetime sentence for those who morally fail. If they're unrepentant, sure. But if they ARE now walking a Godly walk then ???????

    Oh, oh, oh ....... and then there's the Scripture that says that we overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.

    The blood either covers or it doesn't. God either uses our testimony or He doesn't.

    And like I said in the other thread, in September I'm going to a weekend thing where Todd Bentley is the speaker because I want to see for myself. I'll report back, if anyone even is open enough to hear the truth, which ever way it goes.



    I'm not going to argue about this any longer. That's why I closed the other thread, with permission from Krys, not a misuse of my Mod status, I might add.


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    FresnoJoe (09-28-2015)

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