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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #181
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    "Changing" one's reputation often depends on how long the people who have judged someone want to keep the fire burning.

    Reputation CAN be turned into TESTIMONY by our loving, healing, freeing God.
    Notice that it says "with outsiders". Not with believers.

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  3. #182
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    There are far less clear cut cases than my example. People will of course cry "you're judging our hearts" when they figure out that they are commanded to repent while some other couple who are in the same situation in the strictly formal sense aren't. God is the one who judges the hearts and confirms his message. Like I mentioned, it is difficult to penalize people based on sheer discernment but it should be easier to withhold benefits that people feel entitled to, like continuing in ministry just because they are remarried even though the Spirit speaks to their specific case that they have merely formalized their adultery and their true wife that they haven't dealt with in a proper manner, is found elsewhere.
    And then there are those who have genuinely repented...and God continues to lead them in His Kingdom..and then there are those who reject ALL who ever fell because they have just judged them all unworthy of 'Gawd's ministry'.

    Only those that are sensitive to Holy Spirit will be able to discern the difference...those that pass judgment won't even try...

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  5. #183
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    And then there are those who have genuinely repented...and God continues to lead them in His Kingdom..and then there are those who reject ALL who ever fell because they have just judged them all unworthy of 'Gawd's ministry'.

    Only those that are sensitive to Holy Spirit will be able to discern the difference...those that pass judgment won't even try...
    They have genuinely repented but their reputation with outsiders may still be bad. And that is a problem, as long as they are going to minister to those outsiders and not merely to the insiders. In fact, as long as their church/denomination/stream/whatever is going to minister to those outsiders and the minister in question is seen as representative of them.

    Extreme example, just to start somewhere : Rick Joyner decides to join ISIS and gets arrested before he does anything more than aspire to becoming a terrorist. He's on the front page of every newspaper for a while, goes to prison for a few years then gets out of prison, is deemed as repentive and is restored. Will his reputation with outsiders change because he is now deemed repentive and restored by his own church or stream ? Absolutely not, his reputation with outsiders is lost for the remainder of his life period. There is nothing that can change that. Unless God reworks the brains of every single human being who ever followed the news back when he stood trial. Those are simply the facts.

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  7. #184
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    And then there are those who have genuinely repented...and God continues to lead them in His Kingdom..and then there are those who reject ALL who ever fell because they have just judged them all unworthy of 'Gawd's ministry'.

    Only those that are sensitive to Holy Spirit will be able to discern the difference...those that pass judgment won't even try...
    The word of God divides the truth Quest and it's plain, not esoteric as to what the qualifications of moral ministry are.

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  9. #185
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Notice that it says "with outsiders". Not with believers.
    It's the believers who often keep the bad reputation afloat. They get on the news, they protest meetings, they hand out flyers...

    eg. Todd Bentley

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  11. #186
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    People will dig in to defend their faves, that's for sure.

    1corinthians 3:4 - For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    PS...I only watched TB a few times at Lakeland on TV...I have not fllowed his ministry at all..

    Someone posted some of the restoration videos here and one particular one grabbed me and I saw genuine repentance in Him...beyond that have not seen him since...

    No John, I don't form my views of God and His word based on 'faves'.

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  13. #187
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The word of God divides the truth Quest and it's plain, not esoteric as to what the qualifications of moral ministry are.
    Moral ministry....so all who fail, even if they sincerely repent, can no longer ever minister...I don't see that in God's Word...or His character..

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  15. #188
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    It's the believers who often keep the bad reputation afloat. They get on the news, they protest meetings, they hand out flyers...

    eg. Todd Bentley
    Yep...judged him disqualified even if the Holy Spirit led him there...

    Maybe they are messengers of Satan sent to buffet and keep him humble

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  17. #189
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    It's the believers who often keep the bad reputation afloat. They get on the news, they protest meetings, they hand out flyers...

    eg. Todd Bentley
    Heresy hunters, I know. But whatever the catalyst of it is, a really bad reputation with outsiders can often not be undone. Todd Bentley is probably not a bad case though he may be just that in Great Britain. Someone like Jimmy Swaggart probably is. We may ask God to protect us from gaining a bad reputation but once it is there, there may be little one can do.

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  19. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    They have genuinely repented but their reputation with outsiders may still be bad. And that is a problem, as long as they are going to minister to those outsiders and not merely to the insiders. In fact, as long as their church/denomination/stream/whatever is going to minister to those outsiders and the minister in question is seen as representative of them.

    Extreme example, just to start somewhere : Rick Joyner decides to join ISIS and gets arrested before he does anything more than aspire to becoming a terrorist. He's on the front page of every newspaper for a while, goes to prison for a few years then gets out of prison, is deemed as repentive and is restored. Will his reputation with outsiders change because he is now deemed as repentive and restored by his own church or stream ? Absolutely not, his reputation with outsiders is lost for the remainder of his life period. There is nothing that can change that. Unless God reworks the brains of every single human being who ever followed the news back when he stood trial. Those are simply the facts.
    How others VIEW the repentant is not actually what I am addressing. As a matter of fact I think in large part it is irrelevant. IF his repentance is sincere and GOD who knows his heart restores him to ministry by sending him forth and then MAN decides he is disqualified and gets in the way or at least defames him as he goes...who REALLY has the problem here?

    How significant really is our 'reputation' with people in God's Kingdom work? Again, if they are sent by God and rejected by men, who really has the problem?

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