Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

God is moving in His repentant people..yes, the CHURCH is not where it should be but it is still HIS BRIDE..
Edited: Here is a paraphrased testimony by Heidi Baker. Where you see Italics read in the attitude of judgmentalism..

She was visiting a church that was having a ceremony for new 'apostles'. They called them to the front and they were wearing their apostle T-shirts.
She was abhorrent. Then the pastor announced that Heidi Baker would be praying for them...she was stunned and did not want to go up, but was obligated.
She went up and began to pray and God gave her a vision...she saw a disheavled bride in shoes that didn't fit and a funky looking ponytail hairstyle and a dress that was too big and she said, 'God, that's a pitiful bride!' Then she saw the bride beginning to transform..she filled out her dress, her hair took on a lovely style, her shoes fit. Then God said to HER to the affect of, She is MY bride. Don't criticize MY bride.'

God tells us in James to not judge our brethren...in the end at the final judgment, God lone will stand and declare true judgment of HIS bride...until then we as a body are being transformed from the old to the new, from the disheveled to the lovely..from the weak to the strong and God is more than able to refine HIS church, His bride.

We are to judge SIN but not people...and when people repent and God forgives and restores how dare us reject them...

Originally Posted by John

The scripture is quite plain when it comes to the qualifications of an overseer.

Which qualification prevents a repentant brother or sister from restoration to ministry?

Originally Posted by JeffDoles

Yes, until it gets better. Restoration to ministry is a process that may take a while.

I think it takes far longer with man than it does with God..He knows the depth of the repentant heart and does not exact further punishment..man on the other hand may choose to never stop exacting punishment.

Originally Posted by Nikos

Where in the Bible does it say you have to look like a sewer rat to win someone to Christ. The Church today likes to get off on the idea that we are different than 50 years ago. That is not the question. It is not about 'we." It is about Him. If you have the power of God manifest in your life, it will reach the lowest soul. There is nothing like the power of God. Your ideas are brainwashed into you minds. Yet the church today is far from what it should be. There is nothing but entertainment on the platform and absolutely zero power. None! The church can have its rock concert type services, but anyone with an understanding of what the poser of God is knows that the church is deader than a corpse in the grave. If Jesus comes back today, it will be a sad day for those who have invested their lives in people who cannot save you or heal you. You are on a dead end road.

And where in the Bible does it say you have to wear a three piece suit or a $300 dress with a hat to match, which is what you see in many churches.



People are different. Culture is different. You reach people where they are. Not very often to you see a sewer rat, prostitute or drug dealer come into one of those churches.

Good grief, Nikos.

Jesus never changes. His blood never loses its power. It's the Father's will that NONE should perish but all be saved and the guy in the nice slacks and the button down shirt can't reach them all.

Originally Posted by A.J.

And, see, John, what I first see in that scripture is to restore that person gently.

Same scripture, different what we pullout of it.

Adding to that..."considering YOURSELVES"......

Originally Posted by John

I don't condone whippings, that would be bad. You are are acting like moral ministry is an extreme, His yoke is light AJ.

Huh?



Moral ministry is an extreme?

Wut?

Originally Posted by John

I know you came late to the discussion Quest but this revolves around restoration to ministry with out repentance (deed and thought) of adultery.

By your measure, as long as a person is "sorry" for his behaviour there is no foul.

Actually John..no. I neither said that nor even implied it. In fact I stated just the opposite. Repentance, and I think I stated this in one post, is not 'I'm sorry'. I hesitated to go any further as it would open another can of worms..

But repentance truly recognizes the SIN for what it was...in the case of adultery if one says I am sorry but...one has not repented. Repentance in it's truest form if given that same set of circumstances would abhor that prior choice and run!

TB stated unequivocally that what he did was purely selfish sin. He made no excuse, assigned no other blame, and even, if I recall stated if he could undo the wrong he had done he would. That is repentance..

There are many who have not...or at least if they have they still cloak their sin with justification when in public...but IMHO if one still cloaks it they have not repented.

I have not seen TB cloak his sin with any attitude of justification.

Originally Posted by Nikos

I don't have to prove his disqualification. I am only interested in his qualifications. He is not qualified. His life does not qualify him. The lack of qualifications automatically disqualify him.

BTW, David was not a church leader but he was a government leader.

Now here is a reminder of the five-fold gifts; Ephesians 4:11-13 "And Christ gave these gifts to the Church: The Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and the teachers. Their role is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ".

Well that was a nice spin...David was a God appointed leader...one GOD did not remove from office. He was also the lineage of our savior and the wife of his murder and adultery is the great great great great ect .....grandmother of Jesus.

THAT sounds like restoration to me..to take an adulteress and elevate her to the lineage of HIMSELF..

REPENTANCE..washes us white as snow! REPENTANCE restores us to the position of being clothed in HIS righteousness!
REPENTANCE ...Does God then continue to PUNISH? I don't think so.

Again...GOD must be the one who leads the fallen one through restoration by His Spirit...but then again, God is the One who is supposed to be leading all of us, isn't He?

Originally Posted by John

I know you came late to the discussion Quest but this revolves around restoration to ministry with out repentance (deed and thought) of adultery.

By your measure, as long as a person is "sorry" for his behaviour there is no foul.

OHHHHHH ........... so THAT'S what this thread is about.



I thought it was about keeping repentant and restored ministers of the Gospel in the pews instead of out doing what God called them to do!

hah! my bad!!!




I have a really short answer for that.

If they haven't repented, they shouldn't be in ministry.

Originally Posted by FaithfulOne

Would this be going into the territory of trying to see what's in one's heart, something only God knows? (not defending TB, I don't follow his ministry either..just asking)

If ministers are going to go with what people claim and nothing more than that then everyone's new marriage has to be accepted. Or everyone's new marriage has to be condemned. Either or.

Dr. Michael Brown talked about a meeting where some minister he knew was asked by a man and woman to bless their relationship. He felt in the Spirit that something was wrong and he asked them "are you married" and they said yes. He still felt that something was wrong so he asked "to each other" and he soon discovered that that wasn't quite the case. They were both in the process of getting divorced from someone else and were already in a sexual relationship with each other.

Discernment while dealing with specific cases and an anointing capable of convicting of the truth are needed to sort things out with difficult matters like this. When people aren't easily reasoned with and able to arrive at the truth in a more conversational or interactional manner together with the minister in question, that is. Even when that truth hurts.