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Thread: Fallen Ministers - Entitled to Full Resoration?

  1. #131
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Where did we get the idea that Love permits sin. Absolutely not. This idea of mushy love that allows anything to get by, is not the Bible kind of love. I know it sounds good. It might be good for some to go and study the meaning of love in the Bible.

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  3. #132
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    We are not talking about forgiveness. That is no the issue. We are talking about his qualifications to again retain leadership in the Church. I say he has no right to be a leader. He has lost it all. He needs to sit down, shut up and keep his ugly snout off the platform. It may hurt, but he did it to himself. He may be a brother in Christ, but he cannot continue as a platform entertainer. He has had too many women. That disqualifies him. He treated his first wife in such a dirty way and then to go backstage and have sex with this other floozy? You got to be kidding. I wouldn't walk across the street to hear this bloke and see him holy ghost kick those who come in the prayer line. He might better be successful in the pro wrestling shows.
    Nobody said you have to.

    There is a generation out there who relate to people like TB. Whether the old guard likes it or not.

    They have tattoos and piercings and purple, red, blue and pink hair. They've done drugs, slept around without a second thought, possibly even partners of the same sex because they think it's ok to be "bi"....

    God's army of the 21st century is NOT going to look like it did 50 years ago, or even 10 years ago. There's a generation out there that will only be reached by someone who looks like them, talks like them, listens to the music (style) they listen to.

    They HAVE to know that no matter where they've been or what they've done, God will forgive them, wipe away their tears, heal their pain and wash them whiter than snow. Watching people like TB gives them hope.

    YOU may not like TB or his style of ministry. BUT IT'S been YEARS of walking out his repentance and restoration. Like it or not, God has a place and a ministry for him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Absolutely not! When a man who claims one of the five fold ministry gifts of the church, commits such a dark and evil sin, It is not just between him and God but it is between him the church and God. His actions affect the whole church and we have every right to inspect the fruit. I have seen nothing but a whimpering cry that "I am innocent" and that tells me nothing.
    Today, adultery is not considered a major sin, yet it is one of the worst sins that can be committed. On a scale of 1-10, it is a 7 or 8. It cannot be committed without affecting others. So I say for this man to sit down. If he came to my meetings, I would sit him down where he belongs.
    Yes, nothing puts someone in their place and teaches them a lesson better than public judgement and shaming.

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  5. #133
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    We are to be witnesses, if our relationship with Christ produces a life product that is no better than a rank sinner, we are not a witness, we have a faulty relationship and should sit down until it gets better.

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  7. #134
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Where did we get the idea that Love permits sin.
    Hmmm...I don't believe ANYONE said or even implied that Nikos...love DOES and is required to forgive.

    Absolutely not. This idea of mushy love that allows anything to get by, is not the Bible kind of love. I know it sounds good. It might be good for some to go and study the meaning of love in the Bible.
    Repentance and forgiveness don't come from 'mushy love'. If they do that Jesus extended mushy love to both you and ME...

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  9. #135
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I say preach repentance...that IS the high ground...
    The message of the church is to state what is sin, state repentance is necessary for forgiveness and reconciliation...whether it's adultery, homosexuality or other moral failings...

    When a man or woman truly repents and the LORD restores them to ministry who is man to arrogantly reject him? Scripture wars us to remain humble lest we fall in the same manner...pride and a haughty judgmental spirit are the MOST likely to trip and become ensnared because in reality, it already has.


    EGGXACCLY!!!!!

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  11. #136
    Senior Member Nikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    ALL sin is dark and evil Nikos...No, it's between him and GOD and the church needs to align with GOD's decision on the matter. Now can you prove GOD has stated he is disqualified for ministry?

    When David had sex with a married woman committing both adultery and then moving on to MURDER, God forgave him and gave him and Bathsheba Solomon for the son to inherit the throne...

    My guess is that if you had been alive back then you would have decided David was disqualified as the leader of Israel much less that Bathsheba would be the mother of the son of Jesus' lineage..and yet GOD....
    I don't have to prove his disqualification. I am only interested in his qualifications. He is not qualified. His life does not qualify him. The lack of qualifications automatically disqualify him.

    BTW, David was not a church leader but he was a government leader.

    Now here is a reminder of the five-fold gifts; Ephesians 4:11-13 "And Christ gave these gifts to the Church: The Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and the teachers. Their role is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ".

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  13. #137
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    The issue here is cult teaching, the notion that a mans ministry overrides simple truths. If this weren't Rick Joyner and TB there wouldn't be much to say.

    God's army of the 21st century is NOT going to look like it did 50 years ago, or even 10 years ago. There's a generation out there that will only be reached by someone who looks like them, talks like them, listens to the music (style) they listen to.
    Yes, this how it starts, and it never ends well. A special, superior way.

    God does not NEED TB or RJ or anyone else, that is simply the seed of much error.

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  15. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Gods love prescribes ministry standards in His word. Fairly light standards BTW, you could read through them and basically say "you must be a decent person", it's not a heavy yoke.
    Yes, there are standards, and if a fallen brother repents and meets those standards, he can be restored to ministry. God's standards do not prohibit restoration.

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  17. #139
    Frozen Chozen Admin A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.


    That scripture tells to be careful around the wrongdoer, that we don't become tempted to do the same thing they did. There is no admonition there to avoid judging the sin.
    And, see, John, what I first see in that scripture is to restore that person gently.

    Same scripture, different what we pullout of it.

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  19. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It is conceivable that Bentley could have schemed like that and then later repented of the scheming. What now ? Should he divorce his new wife since the relationship is obviously based on willful adultery ? Does he get to "repent" his way to where the new marriage is suddenly legitimate ? If so, how easy would it be to believe that that is what he is actually doing rather than expanding the scheme further (by admitting to the original scheme, knowing that they will at least be forced to accept his repentance from that) ?
    Would this be going into the territory of trying to see what's in one's heart, something only God knows? (not defending TB, I don't follow his ministry either..just asking)
    t

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